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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 12-20-2012, 02:55 PM   #46
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I think I understand. I am not an engineer so I was probably using the wrong terminology. I am trying to say that using the water or sand helps reduce temperature swings, not actually regulate the temperature. Is their a better way to state this, or am I just out in left field?
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Unread 12-20-2012, 03:20 PM   #47
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Here is the bottom line with the BWS, if you don't put something in the water pan, be it lava rocks, water, sand, etc you can not keep the temps below 300º consistently. YMMV
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Unread 12-20-2012, 03:57 PM   #48
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If you want something to absorb heat to a certain point, and then release it when the space around it reduces in temp (Again, 2LoT), what you're describing is a thermal capacitor. From an intellectual standpoint, I ask if that's really a good idea though, and perhaps this isn't the best place to have that conversation.

Still, my thoughts in brief are that in a system with energy both entering and exiting at a constant rate (in from the vents, out through the exhaust), and no external factors, the best way to maintain constant temperature would be (I would think) to isolate that system through insulation so that external forces cannot interfere. I see no bennefit to be gained from a thermal capacitor. Only detriment from having to produce enough heat for it to store. Keep in mind that true insulators do not absorb energy, but rather deflect it.

Thinking about a cooker, when you open and close the door, you let a large amount of heat out, and the thermal capacitor is able to release the heat it has into the space with less temperature (2Lot), requiring less time or fire from the coals to return to temp. Still, with reactionary systems controlling modern cookers (read Stokers and Gurus), they will adjust the amount of heat produced to accomodate the loss of heat from opening the door, and then reduce it later.

So, if you're going to be opening the door to your cooker frequently, I can see how sand may help you stabilize temps, but at a cost of increased fuel consumption to add energy to the heat capacitor. If you have a ADC device on your cooker, I would think you would be better off using insulation than sand, but that's just my geeky opinion as some one who doesn't own one. The other qustion to ask is whether or not sand is the best substance to use as a thermal capacitor. As I said, it has some resistance to thermal conduction, and if your goal is thermal capacitance, I would think you would want something that accepts and receives heat freely, like aluminum. If the goal is to be a thermal barrior (Insulator), I would just think something else would be better.

Just thoughts, sorry for the distraction...

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Unread 12-20-2012, 04:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
If you want something to absorb heat to a certain point, and then release it when the space around it reduces in temp (Again, 2LoT), what you're describing is a thermal capacitor. From an intellectual standpoint, I ask if that's really a good idea though, and perhaps this isn't the best place to have that conversation.

Still, my thoughts in brief are that in a system with energy both entering and exiting at a constant rate (in from the vents, out through the exhaust), and no external factors, the best way to maintain constant temperature would be (I would think) to isolate that system through insulation so that external forces cannot interfere. I see no bennefit to be gained from a thermal capacitor. Only detriment from having to produce enough heat for it to store. Keep in mind that true insulators do not absorb energy, but rather deflect it.

Thinking about a cooker, when you open and close the door, you let a large amount of heat out, and the thermal capacitor is able to release the heat it has into the space with less temperature (2Lot), requiring less time or fire from the coals to return to temp. Still, with reactionary systems controlling modern cookers (read Stokers and Gurus), they will adjust the amount of heat produced to accomodate the loss of heat from opening the door, and then reduce it later.

So, if you're going to be opening the door to your cooker frequently, I can see how sand may help you stabilize temps, but at a cost of increased fuel consumption to add energy to the heat capacitor. If you have a ADC device on your cooker, I would think you would be better off using insulation than sand, but that's just my geeky opinion as some one who doesn't own one. The other qustion to ask is whether or not sand is the best substance to use as a thermal capacitor. As I said, it has some resistance to thermal conduction, and if your goal is thermal capacitance, I would think you would want something that accepts and receives heat freely, like aluminum. If the goal is to be a thermal barrior (Insulator), I would just think something else would be better.

Just thoughts, sorry for the distraction...

dmp
Oh I get it. Your being ironic.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 04:08 PM   #50
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Take your thermodynamics and laws and keep them off my smoker!

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Unread 12-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #51
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IMHO Backwoods smokers and heat control is effected by what happens below your waterpan more than what is in it.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
I would think you would want something that accepts and receives heat freely, like aluminum
dmp
Yes, but The Home Depot doesn't sell it in 50lbs. bags like they do sand.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 04:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Buds BBQ View Post
Yes, but The Home Depot doesn't sell it in 50lbs. bags like they do sand.
If only there was some way to empty a lot of aluminum cans while cooking BBQ. :)

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Unread 12-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big brother smoke View Post
Here is the bottom line with the BWS, if you don't put something in the water pan, be it lava rocks, water, sand, etc you can not keep the temps below 300º consistently. YMMV
My mileage varies, considerably. So that line is far from the bottom. No issues controlling my BW up or down and I always cook dry.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 05:52 PM   #55
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How much meat do you have in there?


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Edit: PLease share your technique, I am not into pissing matches
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Unread 12-20-2012, 08:30 PM   #56
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DANG...that PARTY is nice. Mine was delivered a year ago this week. SHOULDA waited?!!

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Unread 12-20-2012, 08:41 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
If you want something to absorb heat to a certain point, and then release it when the space around it reduces in temp (Again, 2LoT), what you're describing is a thermal capacitor. From an intellectual standpoint, I ask if that's really a good idea though, and perhaps this isn't the best place to have that conversation.

Still, my thoughts in brief are that in a system with energy both entering and exiting at a constant rate (in from the vents, out through the exhaust), and no external factors, the best way to maintain constant temperature would be (I would think) to isolate that system through insulation so that external forces cannot interfere. I see no bennefit to be gained from a thermal capacitor. Only detriment from having to produce enough heat for it to store. Keep in mind that true insulators do not absorb energy, but rather deflect it.

Thinking about a cooker, when you open and close the door, you let a large amount of heat out, and the thermal capacitor is able to release the heat it has into the space with less temperature (2Lot), requiring less time or fire ... be better off using insulation than sand, but that's just my geeky opinion as some one who doesn't own one. The other qustion to ask is whether or not sand is the best substance to use as a thermal capacitor. As I said, it has some resistance to thermal conduction, and if your goal is thermal capacitance, I would think you would want something that accepts and receives heat freely, like aluminum. If the goal is to be a thermal barrior (Insulator), I would just think something else would be better.

Just thoughts, sorry for the distraction...

dmp
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Unread 12-20-2012, 09:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TELL YOU WHAT BBQ View Post
I DUNNO...I put WATER in the pan..and a BEER on the roof. I'm a simpleton.
I agree!
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Unread 12-20-2012, 10:16 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big brother smoke View Post
Here is the bottom line with the BWS, if you don't put something in the water pan, be it lava rocks, water, sand, etc you can not keep the temps below 300º consistently. YMMV
Works for me...
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Unread 12-20-2012, 10:45 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TELL YOU WHAT BBQ View Post
DANG...that PARTY is nice. Mine was delivered a year ago this week. SHOULDA waited?!!

A man is always lookin' for an UPGRADE...don't tell my wife!
I think you know someone who can keep it a secret:D

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