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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 12-05-2012, 09:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmike View Post
I may get flamed for this, but IMHO, all electric sharpeners are junk...

The perception of sharpness is relative. Many people have never actually experienced a truly sharp kitchen knife. But once you do, you'll immediately recognize the difference. Just ask Wayne from MoKan Meatheads. He won one of my gift baskets at last year's Kooker's Kare winter banquet. That basket contained a Japanese carbon steel gyuto (chef's knife) which I had hand sharpened. That knife had an edge honed down to less than a quarter of a micron (~60,000 grit)...
No flame here kcmike. I really appreciate you informed input. I normally filet fish and have skinned a buck and duck or 2. When it comes to heavy beef cuts off the smoker, I'm still a novice compared to you Pro's here.

retired trucker made some very good points here about blade angles. I can relate to that.

I guess, I'm just looking for some good quality knifes that will last about 20 years and hold a good edge with light to medium usage. But like us all, we want it to be sharp with no muss, no fuss until sharpening time.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 10:01 PM   #62
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You guys dont seem to rate Wustof too well?
Is it because they are to exspensive or some other reason?
I have Jap knives and I love to use them. But My go to knife is a 16cm Wustof cooks that I re ground the blade to Japanese spec and mirror polished, all on whet stones. The blades are thin enough to do this.
Keeps a razor edge just as long as the VG10 Jap knives (Months)
Just sayin

Last edited by Smokey Mick; 12-05-2012 at 10:03 PM.. Reason: added info
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Unread 12-05-2012, 10:08 PM   #63
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Very Cool SM. You say the Wustof keeps an edge. What is your frequency of usage and what do you cut with it?
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Unread 12-05-2012, 10:26 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast View Post
I guess, I'm just looking for some good quality knifes that will last about 20 years and hold a good edge with light to medium usage. But like us all, we want it to be sharp with no muss, no fuss until sharpening time.
There's nothing wrong with Victorinox or Forschner. They will last a lifetime and get the job done. But, they are soft and don't stay sharp, nor can they be sharpened ultra sharp, the steel just won't hold that kind of an edge.

On the other end of the spectrum are the Japanese kitchen knives. They vary greatly in quality and price, but even on the low end, they far surpass Victorinox & Forschner, and to a lesser degree they also surpass Wusthof & Henckels.

In the middle you have top shelf forged offerings from Wusthof, Henckels and Messermeister. Of those three, Messermeister is my favorite. Messermeister's steel is basically the same as the other two, but their blade profiles are a tad bit thinner and they don't have a full length bolster, which is unique in German kitchen knives and a very good thing. This makes them lighter and much easier to sharpen and use.

Here are some of my top choices where quality and price point are optimized...

Messermeister Meridian Elite: http://www.knifemerchant.com/product...productLine=46

And the biggest bang for the buck in Japanese high carbon; Fujiwara Kanefusa. These knives are cheaper than any of the best German forged steel knives and they are twice the cutting tool. You can only get them from Japan. The website below is actually located in Japan. I've ordered countless knives from them, so I will vouch for their great customer service & super fast (and cheap) shipping.

http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

Hope this helps.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 10:35 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey Mick View Post
You guys dont seem to rate Wustof too well?
Is it because they are to exspensive or some other reason?
I have Jap knives and I love to use them. But My go to knife is a 16cm Wustof cooks that I re ground the blade to Japanese spec and mirror polished, all on whet stones. The blades are thin enough to do this.
Keeps a razor edge just as long as the VG10 Jap knives (Months)
Just sayin
Wusthof makes good knives, as long as you stick with their German-made forged models. They have others that are stamped, not forged, and made somewhere else besides Germany. The quality on those lines is not nearly as good as the originals.

But, when compared to most Japanese knife styles, they are heavier, thicker (almost twice as thick at the spine), and softer than their Japanese counterparts. Not necessarily a bad thing. You can't (or shouldn't) spatchcock a chicken with a Japanese meat laser. Same with winter squash or other hard, thick-skinned gourds and such. So, each have their place in the kitchen. Also, Japanese knife edges tend to chip when abused, while German knife edges tend to deform. You have to take a Japanese knife to the stones to repair, while a good steeling will fix most German knives. So, there are trade-off's.

There are also worlds of difference between all the different types of steel the Japanese use in their knives. VG10 is a good stainless steel, but it's really at the beginning of the spectrum when it comes to Japanese knife steel. You've also got semi-stainless tool steel, powdered steel, white steel, blue steel, super blue steel, ZDP10, etc, etc....
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Unread 12-05-2012, 11:02 PM   #66
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Hey buddy, I skipped over the three pages of posts, so I'm not sure wht was already posted.

My feeling about knives is the same as my feeling about tools.

1. Buy quality tools/knives,

2. Buy what works best for you.

Rule number two is especially important for knives. Like tools, the knife has to feel good in your hand. But, since most tools today are power tools, it is much more important for your knives to feel "right" in your hands. You are the power behind the tool with a knife.

You really need to feel a bunch of knives before you buy them. Or, you can do what I did and buy a bunch of top brand knives and sell the ones you didn't like at garage sales for a big farking loss.

Once you find some knives that feel good in your hand, learn how to keep them sharp and honed (not the same thing, exactly), and buy what you need to keep them sharp and honed.

I have my eclectic collection of knives that work for me, and a sharpener that works for me, and a honing tool that works for me. It may not be professional grade, but it does what I want it to do.

Honestly, a cheap knife that feels good in your hand is better than an expensive knife that feels wrong when you use it.

CD
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Unread 12-05-2012, 11:38 PM   #67
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I use a old Wusthof Chef's knife and I love it. But, it has it's purpose. I actually prefer it for processing large amounts of veggies for things like stews, soups and such when I am serving many people.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 02:04 AM   #68
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Yes I was meaning the Wustof Clasic, I like it because it is such a good allrounder. Its also the only knife that the "Lovely" is allowed to use.
Kind of like a beater wrist watch for heavy trade work when a Rolex is a little over the top.
My fave non beater,


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Unread 12-06-2012, 02:37 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmike View Post

And the biggest bang for the buck in Japanese high carbon; Fujiwara Kanefusa. These knives are cheaper than any of the best German forged steel knives and they are twice the cutting tool. You can only get them from Japan. The website below is actually located in Japan. I've ordered countless knives from them, so I will vouch for their great customer service & super fast (and cheap) shipping.

http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

Hope this helps.
Wow, first time I have ever seen another person know about this...just minutes ago I PMed someone about Fujiwara!
I am a long time client of Koki and Gem too, they are brilliant to deal with.

Great work kcmike!
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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:31 PM   #70
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Again, Great info from all! Thanks! I'll check those links kcmike.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 06:29 PM   #71
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I bought a Scanpan Pian knife for about $25. I don't buy Scanpan but could not find a Pian and wanted one. It gets heavy rotation! The shape will make it's usefulness obvious.
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