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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 09-20-2012, 12:13 PM   #76
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You are obviously free to wrap in paper whenever you want, but in keeping with the "theme" of this thread I do believe Aaron wraps his during the cook, at least that's what he says in one of the videos posted here. I do believe you will like what the paper does for your bark if you wrap at some point during your cook. What's your target temp?

Do you have to refuel your UDS at any point? I wouldn't hesitate to smoke that turkey at 325+, it may help you avoid rubbery skin and shave some time off your cook.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 12:16 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS-TX View Post
You are obviously free to wrap in paper whenever you want, but in keeping with the "theme" of this thread I do believe Aaron wraps his during the cook, at least that's what he says in one of the videos posted here. I do believe you will like what the paper does for your bark if you wrap at some point during your cook. What's your target temp?

Do you have to refuel your UDS at any point? I wouldn't hesitate to smoke that turkey at 325+, it may help you avoid rubbery skin and shave some time off your cook.
I have a roll of just plain butcher paper. Will this work fine or does it need to be the special red kind or parchment?
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Unread 09-20-2012, 12:25 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly6 View Post
I have a roll of just plain butcher paper. Will this work fine or does it need to be the special red kind or parchment?
If anything it should not be waxed paper, like regular white BP is. Both sides should be plain paper. If you don't have any of this, you might be able to use some plain grocery bags if you are in a pinch. Hopefully ones w/out much ink on them.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #79
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My butcher paper is plain white, untreated, it works fine. I made sure it was un-coated as I think the paper being able to breathe makes a difference.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 12:39 PM   #80
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I used to cook brisket that jiggled and basically fell apart. It was juicey. Then I took entered a few KCBS contests, became a certified Judge, and took a few classes.
What I got from that was KCBS prefers a slightly underdone brisket than those depicted in this thread. One where the bark does not fracture when sliced and looks pretty.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 12:41 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlin_MacRae View Post
This is Q-Talk, guys. Please stay reasonably on topic, wouldja? While Jane Seymour is a babe, and yes, membership has it's privilieges, brisket is the topic.


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Sorry Arlin, I will stay on topic.

Grizz, I will often trim the ends of my packer to square them up a little on the flat, I also use that to make a reference cut. Thus, even a large packer usually fits on my UDS. BUT, you can take a tip from Boshizzle and put a ball of foil under that brisket, then it will fit nicely, you will get better air flow around the meat, for more even cooking and the bark will be terrific as well.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 01:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QDoc View Post
I used to cook brisket that jiggled and basically fell apart. It was juicey. Then I took entered a few KCBS contests, became a certified Judge, and took a few classes.
What I got from that was KCBS prefers a slightly underdone brisket than those depicted in this thread. One where the bark does not fracture when sliced and looks pretty.
That's all I'm seeing in the video. The point with all the fat jiggling and fall apart over cooked brisket. That's fine if you like it that way but its the equivalent of fall off the bone ribs.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 02:00 PM   #83
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I found early on, that there is a wide variety of what folks like in brisket, and for now, I think most folks are going for that softer brisket style. My cousins (Idaho and Texas) do not like a soft brisket or roast, they always say 'that is what teeth are for' and 'I don't want my beef like baby food'.

I happen to prefer point cooked a lot more and served sliced, but, I prefer the flat a little less falling apart. Once it starts to fall apart when slicing, it means it will be dryer.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 02:14 PM   #84
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On the topic of "jiggly" brisket and the video of Franklin BBQ's brisket here is my 2 cents worth of opinion.

I've eaten brisket at Franklin BBQ. It's delicious. It's juicy. It's tender. I thought it was the best brisket I had while in Texas and I ate at 9 barbcuce restaurants including the Salt Lick, Snow's, and all the great places in Lockhart. Nothing I'm going to write below is any kind of criticism of Franklin BBQ's brisket.

As far as Bourdain's comments go, I must conclude that he really hasn't eaten that much great barbecue. His gushing praise says more about his inexperienced barbecue palate than it does Franklin BBQ's brisket.

Seriously. His reaction to eating it was the reaction of a person that is used to eating brisket cooked, chilled, and reheated for service at chain restaurants or other want to be barbecue restaurants.

Franklin BBQ's brisket is good, but it isn't so unique that it is in and of itself the gold standard as insinuated by Bourdain.

You folks who want to learn to cook a brisket that can rival anything you can get at the BBQ meccas in Texas need to pay close attention to methods that you can learn right here on this board. And, I mean close attention.

I see a lot of people try to combine methods from different cooks and then complain that the meat was tough or dry or whatever. You need to try several methods exactly as described in the posts without deviation. Then, make up your mind which on you like. You may have to make adjustments because you are using a different cooker than the original poster (OP). If so, ask questions before trying the method. Or, seek out a successful method on the board that highlights the kind of cooker you have.

Don't deviate from the instructions. Don't!

Further, butcher paper is no silver bullet. The great Texas places wrap in butcher paper because they have it on hand and it costs more to buy butcher paper and aluminum foil together. They use what they have on hand.

If you have trouble getting good bark on a brisket, it may be your method, it may be your ingredients, it may be the foil, and it may even be the butcher paper. There are many ways to skin a cat and to cook a delicious brisket and you can find a lot of them right here on this board.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boshizzle View Post
On the topic of "jiggly" brisket and the video of Franklin BBQ's brisket here is my 2 cents worth of opinion.

I've eaten brisket at Franklin BBQ. It's delicious. It's juicy. It's tender. I thought it was the best brisket I had while in Texas and I ate at 9 barbcuce restaurants including the Salt Lick, Snow's, and all the great places in Lockhart. Nothing I'm going to write below is any kind of criticism of Franklin BBQ's brisket.

As far as Bourdain's comments go, I must conclude that he really hasn't eaten that much great barbecue. His gushing praise says more about his inexperienced barbecue palate than it does Franklin BBQ's brisket.

Seriously. His reaction to eating it was the reaction of a person that is used to eating brisket cooked, chilled, and reheated for service at chain restaurants or other want to be barbecue restaurants.

Franklin BBQ's brisket is good, but it isn't so unique that it is in and of itself the gold standard as insinuated by Bourdain.

You folks who want to learn to cook a brisket that can rival anything you can get at the BBQ meccas in Texas need to pay close attention to methods that you can learn right here on this board. And, I mean close attention.

I see a lot of people try to combine methods from different cooks and then complain that the meat was tough or dry or whatever. You need to try several methods exactly as described in the posts without deviation. Then, make up your mind which on you like. You may have to make adjustments because you are using a different cooker than the original poster (OP). If so, ask questions before trying the method. Or, seek out a successful method on the board that highlights the kind of cooker you have.

Don't deviate from the instructions. Don't!

Further, butcher paper is no silver bullet. The great Texas places wrap in butcher paper because they have it on hand and it costs more to buy butcher paper and aluminum foil together. They use what they have on hand.

If you have trouble getting good bark on a brisket, it may be your method, it may be your ingredients, it may be the foil, and it may even be the butcher paper. There are many ways to skin a cat and to cook a delicious brisket and you can find a lot of them right here on this board.
Well said.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 02:25 PM   #86
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Boshizzle, the best point you make, in my experience, is for people to stop taking bits and pieces of various techniques from successful cook and doing a mixed process early in their learning period. There is no substitute for experience and a lot lives here every day. I see it all the time, where people are going to 5 or 6 thread, 3 or 4 websites and doing what they like, and not what they are reading. Then they get mixed results and end up confused, or worse, intimidated.

In particular, there is a real difference in how you cook a brisket at 225F, 275F and 325F, right down to the trim and rub. There is a real difference between foil, paper and no wrap at all. And finally, there is a real difference between competition, catering, restaurant and home cooking. The methods do not combine well.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #87
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OK so you guys are freaking me out a little bit...

18lb packer
Rub is salt and pepper with some garlic and celery salt
15+ hours at 250-275
wrap in paper at internal temp around 165
pull from smoker at internal temp of 200ish
Let it sit in the oven at 200 until ready to slice

Will this work fine or should I run around waving my hands all crazy like until i get tired where i fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position until some magic brisket fairy delivers the perfect brisket to my door. Then the family will be able to enjoy some good Q and i get to suck meals through a straw for the rest of my existance in an institution...
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Unread 09-20-2012, 02:58 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly6 View Post
OK so you guys are freaking me out a little bit...

18lb packer
Rub is salt and pepper with some garlic and celery salt
15+ hours at 250-275
wrap in paper at internal temp around 165
pull from smoker at internal temp of 200ish
Let it sit in the oven at 200 until ready to slice

Will this work fine or should I run around waving my hands all crazy like until i get tired where i fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position until some magic brisket fairy delivers the perfect brisket to my door. Then the family will be able to enjoy some good Q and i get to suck meals through a straw for the rest of my existance in an institution...

260 - 270f. You can wrap it after 6 hours if the bark is set (that's a big one). Don't forget to splash it with 1/4 of 50/50 worcestershire and water mix as you wrap. Try to hold for 4 hours.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly6 View Post
OK so you guys are freaking me out a little bit...

18lb packer - of course, once you trim it, that is the weight that matters
Rub is salt and pepper with some garlic and celery salt - watch the salt, most folks that use both salt and celery salt end up too salty fairly often
15+ hours at 250-275 - Maybe, then again, maybe not
wrap in paper at internal temp around 165 -yes
pull from smoker at internal temp of 200ish - NO! Pull from smoker when the meat probes easily, poke a hole in paper, shove a metal skewer, ice pick or themometer probe in and see if it goes in easily
Let it sit in the oven at 200 until ready to slice - You could do that, or in a pre-warmed cooler if you are within a 3 to 4 hour window for serving.

Will this work fine or should I run around waving my hands all crazy like until i get tired where i fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position until some magic brisket fairy delivers the perfect brisket to my door. Then the family will be able to enjoy some good Q and i get to suck meals through a straw for the rest of my existance in an institution...
My comments in red.

Oh, if you are going to cook at 250F, you will want to trim off most of the fat, leave just a little on the cap, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch of fat.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 03:08 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landarc View Post
My comments in red.

Oh, if you are going to cook at 250F, you will want to trim off most of the fat, leave just a little on the cap, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch of fat.
So what ratio of salt to celery salt to pepper would you use?

I was thinking:
1 part salt
2 parts pepper
1 part celery salt
1/2 part garlic

Go less on the salt and keep the celery salt the same?
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