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Old 08-14-2012, 09:24 AM   #1
This is not your pork!
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Join Date: 04-24-12
Location: Linz, Austria
Smile 12th Q: Overnight Thick Beef Shoulder from Young Austrian Bull [w/ pr0nographic details]

Featured products:
  • Thick beef shoulder from young Austrian bull with a weight of 13.97 lbs
  • Self made rub
  • Self made sauce
  • Injections with fermenting pear juice (just for fun)
Setup:
  • WSM 22.5" with 2nd charcoal grate for use of lump
  • Al Fakher Pure Natural Lemon Tree Lump Charcoal
  • Charcoal ring completely filled for Minion Method without depression lit with Gloria One-Hand Flame Stick
  • Six fist-sized apple wood chunks
  • Cooking scheme: L&S till done / IT 190F
  • Actual cooking temp zone 212-333F
  • Maverick ET-732 & SuperFast WHITE Thermapen for temperature supervision
  • No-Stick Grill-Mat on upper cooking grate
  • Foiled 18" clay saucer in foiled water pan without water
Beef shoulder before unpacking (and our new Mukizu-Santoku knife)


The new pavilion which replaced the destroyed easy-up


The 2nd charcoal grate for using lump


Charcoal ring half filled with apple wood chunks


Charcoal ring completely filled (btw the capacity with tightly packed Lemon Tree Lump Charcoal is ~ 13.23 lbs)


Beef shoulder unpacked side A


Beef side B


Beef side C


Beef side D


Beef after a little trimming ready for some fermented pear juice injections


Firing up Minion Style with Gloria One-Hand Flame Stick


Charcoal lit after about 2 minutes of flaming


The new no-stick grill mat trimmed for the upper cooking grate with gap for Maverick cooking temp probe


Beef injected & rubbed on upper cooking grate with Maverick food probe attached ready to go on Saturday evening at 10:40 p.m.


Beef on Sunday at noon after 12 hours and 30 minutes ready for foiling in apple juice


Time to refuel after 13 hours with another ~ 6.61 lbs of Lemon Tree Lump and some more fun with the Gloria One-Hand Flame Stick


Overview of cooking area with new pavilion


Beef finally ready after 19 hours


Beef after resting foiled in cooler


Beef sliced


Beef closeup


Result:

What an AWESOME piece of beef! Although slightly overcooked (again!) and not really juicy (and again!), it was tender, had a really good bark and exactly the taste you would expect from a fine lean cut of beef. We ate it pure, just with the self-made sauce (which made it through the first 12 hours on the lower cooking grate, leading to a really good reduction with a nice smoke flavor), in wraps, on jasmine rice, and every variation was outstanding. The new favorite is reheated with scallion on jasmine rice, which I just had for dinner yesterday and lunch today. Beef, beef and some more beef! Beef all the way!

Remarks:
  • After a total of 12 cooks I still don't know how to make the product juicy as well, and it is still a mystery when and how to foil (with or without added juice). This time I just waited to long, although at the given weight a cooking time between 14 and 21 hours was to be expected, 19 hours were too much. First I waited for the IT to reach 190F in the first spot the Maverick food probe was stuck in since the beginning of the cook. When I then probed with my new Thermapen it reported a wide range of IT throughout the meat from 150 to 190F, so I placed the Maverick food probe into another spot and foiled the beef in apple juice, because the bark already looked very good after more than 12 hours and 30 minutes. The second spot the Maverick food probe was stuck in reached 190F quite fast then, but the temperature throughout the meat was still very uneven. I probed for the coldest spot, placed the Maverick food probe there and removed the foil again in an attempt to re-crisp the bark. It then took way longer than expected to reach IT 190F again at the last probing spot, and I pulled the meat once finally done after 19 hours. I should have pulled earlier, although the probe did not went in like butter, some parts of the meat showed quite some resistance at all times. I guess foiling was also done wrong, I still don't have the hang of it. So any hints for getting a juicier product are thankfully welcome.
  • The cooking temp went a little crazy for that cook. The meat was put on at 10:40 p.m. and temp went slowly from 250F up to about 275F till I went to bed at 2 a.m., when I woke up during the night the Maverick receiver was reporting 333F, and when I got out of bed at 8 a.m. it was at 212F, rising to a stable 225F during the morning till I had to refuel at noon. It was pretty cold during the night with only about 50-59F, but otherwise the weather played nicely along.
  • When I fired up Minion Style with my new fancy one-hand-operational weed burner, I completely forgot that I had buried a piece of apple wood in the center of the charcoal ring, which lead to an unclean combustion of that piece of wood. Note to myself for next cook: Don't place smoking wood in the middle if firing up Minion Style with the weed burner!
  • The no-stick grill mat, both cooking grates and the foiled clay saucer in the water pan were swamped by gunk from this enormous piece of beef, making cleanup not any easier at all. I can see the benefit for smaller pieces not sticking to the grill mat, but for such large cuts it does not really matter.
  • BTW I had a live report going on in this thread, but unfortunately I did not get any feedback during the cook.
Any comments / thoughts are highly appreciated. Thanks for looking.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:03 AM   #2
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Nice job!
Gotta love those Ikea tables!
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:19 AM   #3
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that looks fantastic!!!! good job!!

one thing that i like doing, is to stick the temp probe in the THICKEST part of the meat, in from the side straight into the middle. looks kinda like yours doesnt head toward the middle, instead along the side about 2" in (hard to tell)

Then on a big hunk of meat like that, i'd foil at 170 or internal so usually the bark is plenty setup. this will allow you to reserve all the juices that'll ooze out in the next 20-30 degrees. if possible, foil pans work wonders for big chunks like this, and allows a very quick process when you go through the foiling process.

Keep it up, 12 cooks will look like nothing when you get the hang of it, and can breeze through a cook with no worries.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:42 AM   #4
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Brother, you put together some of the best all-around play-by-plays I've seen on this site...and considering the incredible stuff that gets posted here, that's a hell of a compliment. I love how you venture into such a wide variety of meats. Also am loving that new setup you have out in the yard; makes me want to set up a lawn chair and grab a beer!

I don't usually foil (although I've never done a beef shoulder before), but if I did, I would agree with mmmmeat; maybe try foiling at a bit lower temp. Your temps seemed to be all over the place, but I'm still learning a lot, so I don't know if that would affect the juiciness of your meat (only in a BBQ forum would I feel comfortable saying that to another man). It sounds like maybe your temps weren't stabilized when you went to bed; I did an overnight on a pork butt last weekend, waited to go to bed until the temps had been running at 275 consistently for about an hour (about 2AM), then set the Maverick to alarm if it went over 300 or under 240. It worked really well; alarm went off around 7 AM saying it was at 238, so I got up and adjusted the vents accordingly. Wasn't my best butt ever, but not far off.

Again, I don't know if the varied temps would affect your moisture; I'm just adding my 2 cents in. Overall, it looks like a great cook, and an awesome pictorial!

I don't believe I've seen you in the Throwdowns yet; we Noobians could really use someone with your abilities in our fight against the Farkanauts!
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:48 AM   #5
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I think it's nearly impossible to get a juicy end product from such a lean piece of meat. Brisket, chuck, and butts get much of their juiciness from rendered cartilage and internal fat, both if which look to be missing from your roast. I haven't injected any of my roasts (I don't roast lean cuts) but I suspect that might help you achieve a juicier product. Great post!
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
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I did one Sat night smoke in alum pan for four hour with a little apple juice , then cover , add au jus mix and beef broth cover until 195 was wonderful
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:37 PM   #7
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I think that what you got was the clod end of the beef shoulder and not the chuck end of it. I've cooked both and found that the clod end is better taken off around 160*.

That looks great BTW!!! I bet that made some good sammies!!!
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:52 PM   #8
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LEAVE the fat ON.
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:06 PM   #9
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That roast looks like the cut called "sirloin tip" here in the states. It is rather lean and best cooked medium rare (or less) and sliced thin. Keep up the good work.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:14 PM   #10
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Join Date: 04-24-12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phubar View Post
Gotta love those Ikea tables!
Yes, these are really a perfect fit, and I just had to be a second one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmeat View Post
one thing that i like doing, is to stick the temp probe in the THICKEST part of the meat, in from the side straight into the middle. looks kinda like yours doesnt head toward the middle, instead along the side about 2" in (hard to tell) Then on a big hunk of meat like that, i'd foil at 170 or internal so usually the bark is plenty setup. this will allow you to reserve all the juices that'll ooze out in the next 20-30 degrees. if possible, foil pans work wonders for big chunks like this, and allows a very quick process when you go through the foiling process.
Yes, the first spot for the Maverick food probe may not have been right. The photo is misleading, it indeed was stuck from the top pointing in the direction of the middle of thickest part, and the probe was stuck all in as far as it is possible, but it nevertheless did not represent the "coolest" spot. It may have been better to insert the probe from the side, which I'll try to remember next time. Foiling after 12 hours 30 minutes should not have been wrong after all, but unfortunately I removed the foil not long after with the idea to re-crisp the bark, and then it took way too long for the final food probe spot to hit 190F. I guess the temp probing and foiling was just unfortunate with this cook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subzerogriller View Post
It sounds like maybe your temps weren't stabilized when you went to bed; I did an overnight on a pork butt last weekend, waited to go to bed until the temps had been running at 275 consistently for about an hour (about 2AM), then set the Maverick to alarm if it went over 300 or under 240. It worked really well; alarm went off around 7 AM saying it was at 238, so I got up and adjusted the vents accordingly. I don't believe I've seen you in the Throwdowns yet; we Noobians could really use someone with your abilities in our fight against the Farkanauts!
When I went to bed at 2 a.m. the temp seemed to have stabilized at 275F, and I have no clue what happened that it went further up till 333F during the night, and then fell to 212F till 8 a.m., but with wind and large temp differences from day to day or day and night it's not easy to stabilize temp for such a long lasting cook, which is why I was already eying for an iQue 110. I usually just have LO 200F and HI 275F set in my Maverick, but I didn't want to be disturbed during sleep, so I just didn't activate the alarm. Till now I always only have been active here in Q-Talk, will have to look what Throwdowns is all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
I think it's nearly impossible to get a juicy end product from such a lean piece of meat. Brisket, chuck, and butts get much of their juiciness from rendered cartilage and internal fat, both if which look to be missing from your roast. I haven't injected any of my roasts (I don't roast lean cuts) but I suspect that might help you achieve a juicier product.
After unpacking I also thought that this cut of beef is very lean, not anything compared to a pork neck or shoulder, but my wife was in the opinion that it had enough fat within. At least it was fattier than loin. We inject just for fun, my wife does not think it gives any advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jestridge View Post
I did one Sat night smoke in alum pan for four hour with a little apple juice , then cover , add au jus mix and beef broth cover until 195 was wonderful
I still don't know if it makes any difference if putting the product in an aluminum pan or enameled casserole. If putting in a pan or casserole right from the beginning, the bottom part touching the pan or casserole up to the level of the optionally juice does not build up a bark, so it's either bark with less juiciness or less bark with more juiciness. But I love bark

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaQue View Post
I think that what you got was the clod end of the beef shoulder and not the chuck end of it. I've cooked both and found that the clod end is better taken off around 160*. That looks great BTW!!! I bet that made some good sammies!!!
"Clod" and "Chuck" don't ring a bell here, but 160F look quite low, and although it is often recommended not to stick to temperatures too much but look how easy the probe slides in, I could not find any spot at any temp with this beef where the probe just went like butter. My problem of missing juiciness definitely is a combination of the things I did, I wish I had more opportunities to "practice" (but my wife thinks it's already too much that I 'Q' now once a week, since we are not enough people to eat all the meat).

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-wiz View Post
LEAVE the fat ON.
Another point I don't really understand. Leaving any external fat on means less bark and smoke penetration, because all external fat protects the underlaying meat, which is why I thought it's best to always trim as much external fat as possible. Juiciness has to come from the inside, external fat may protect the meat from loosing too much juice from the inside, but also prevents smoke to penetrate and building up a bark.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realspaazz View Post
That roast looks like the cut called "sirloin tip" here in the states. It is rather lean and best cooked medium rare (or less) and sliced thin.
I guess I will not find out how to perfect this cook, because my wife is not positive to try that cut of beef again. After all it costs more per pound than brisket, and I only took it because it was on special offer and they had no suitable brisket available. There are some more "awkward" named cuts of beef and pork available here, which I can not really identify, but leaner cuts better go onto a normal grill, not the smoker. Looks like it will be Danish Back Ribs again next weekend, because they will be on special offer later this week, and my family likes these best.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:37 PM   #12
This is not your pork!
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Thumbs up

It's Thursday evening and we are still eating THE BEEF!



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Old 08-16-2012, 04:56 PM   #13
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Lovely looking piece of meat for sure! Nice work.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by This is not your pork! View Post
I guess I will not find out how to perfect this cook, because my wife is not positive to try that cut of beef again.
Next time you run across a nice sirloin roast like that (yep, it looks like a sirloin to me) Slow cook it to 110, then do a quick reverse sear to 125-130. Rest, and slice deli thin across the grain. Your wife will thank me later.
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Ropo View Post
Next time you run across a nice sirloin roast like that (yep, it looks like a sirloin to me) Slow cook it to 110, then do a quick reverse sear to 125-130. Rest, and slice deli thin across the grain. Your wife will thank me later.
Sounds like a great idea, just read up on reverse searing, which never bothered me, since I have retired my two African Cow Dung Charcoal Grills (they are nice, but so impractical), so I am actually lacking a proper grill.

That would be a good reason to get a Performer, but this will surely not go well with the wife, and there are barely any second-hand offers (seem like nobody really buys a new Performer because it is so expensive around here). A Performer would fit just so well besides my WSM with the two IKEA side-tables... One can dream... BTW I also would love to have a stick-burner as well... That's like day-dreaming, I guess I should get back to work now...
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