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Gravity Fed smokers and Grills We are the inventors of these Gravity Fed Smokers and Grills. Innovative and efficient, these BBQ Grills and smokers can burn multi-fuel of charcoal, Wood Pellet, Wood Chunks, Wood Logs and reach temps of 300C or 572 F.


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Unread 08-06-2012, 05:49 AM   #1
woodpelletsmoker
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Default Just something for fun.

A gun can protect you and kill your enemy.
But you can also commit suicide by your own gun.
Before a safer bullet was invented, gun shall be given up.
The clever bullet shall know who is enemy and who is friend

Just my curiocity, do you western people use gun powder as fuel in your smoker or not. We stubborn chinese do not.

When you smoke your Brisket, if you inject poision into your meat, you will kill yourself. Before a reliable mearsure is found to prevent this happening, you must give up smoking.
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Unread 08-06-2012, 06:07 AM   #2
woodpelletsmoker
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Last night I watched a TV program of Rolls-Royce.
Rolls-Royce is absolutely the leader of jet engine.
But If I use wrong fuel, whether it is Boing or air bus, I will kill all the passanger.
Shall the world ban Rolls-Royce jey engine now.
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Unread 08-06-2012, 06:53 AM   #3
bobbyp
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Default Just for fun

Most Rolls Royce Jet engines run on Kerosene (jet fuel).

If the jet engine was invented now, and the designer said;
"This jet engine will run on gasolene or Kerosene" (which it will,,,sort of) and people tried to run it on Gasolene and it blew up, who would be responsible?

You need to stop whinging and make it clear, exactly which type of fuels your burner works properly on.
If you do not, and someone hurts themselves who will be responsible?

You have a very clever idea, but your product does not work correctly under various circumstances.

Fix it or withdraw it before someone gets hurt and you have no buisness whatsoever.
I have been very generous, passing you back all the data and feedback from our tests, you have also agreed with there being a significant risk, but in the year since these tests were carried out you have done nothing to perfect the product, or warn people of the risks of using the wrong fuel.

This is gross negligence, and should the worst happen (which I sincearly hope it doesnt) you will be held accountable and prosecuted for corporate manslaughter/homocide.

I wish you the best of luck with the re-development of your burner.

Rob
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Unread 08-06-2012, 07:14 AM   #4
woodpelletsmoker
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My burner burns WOOD PELLET.
If you add advitives in your PELLET, it is not WOOD Pellet any more.
Additives are NOT WOOD.
Usually WOOD pellet is made from PURE WOOD SAW DUST.

If I add water or salt in Kerosene, Rolls Royce Jet engines will fail.
Even with this risk, Rolls Royce Jet engines are still flying Boing and Air Bus.
It is the fault of me, not the Rolls Royce Jet engines
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Unread 08-06-2012, 07:40 AM   #5
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Following are Cited from http://www.traegergrills.com

"Only the finest hardwood raw materials are sourced from all over the country. The pure, raw material (sawdust) is then pulverized with hammer mills and dried. The dried material is then processed under heat and pressure. Lignin, which is the natural glue which holds plant fiber together, softens above 100 degrees Celsius, permitting the material to change shape. The hot lignin then acts like a glue to bond the pellet together. Pelleting employs a hard steel die which rotates against rollers forcing the material through the die with pressures of over 10,000 PSI. As the pellet is forced through the die it is sheared off at the specified length, cooled, screened, and bagged.

General specifications for wood barbecue pellets are:
100% hardwood "

My burner BURNS wood pellet.
A normal wood pellet is made from "100% hardwood"
a "100% hardwood " will burnt to ASH, not any clanker,
If a pellet becomes "very resinous and sticky" and "gummed up ", it must not be 100% Wood pellet. Usually it must have much more additive.
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Unread 08-06-2012, 07:46 AM   #6
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Why additives are used in wood pellet, I find this from Internet.

Optimization of the Production
Process of Wood Pellets
by Adding Additives
Michal Holubcik, University of Zilina, Slovakia
Radovan Nosek, University of Zilina, Slovakia
Jozef Jandacka, University of Zilina, Slovakia
ABSTRACT
In this work are described the possibilities for improving efficiency of wood pellets production. The introductory part is devoted to analyzing the properties ofwood pellets, combustion and production of pollutantswhen
combusted it. The production of wood pellets and used pelleting machines was analyzed. The main task of
this work is to introduce efficiency pelleting lines and cost reduction of the wood pellets production as fuel
with a focus on the effects of adding additives. The results of experimental measurements and properties of
wood pellets with different additives are presented in the final part.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Unread 08-06-2012, 11:46 AM   #7
Pitmaster T
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This Thread is made in the free discussion area and not the vendor's PAID area. Please indicate in forum if it gets moved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyp View Post
You need to stop whinging and make it clear, exactly which type of fuels your burner works properly on.
If you do not, and someone hurts themselves who will be responsible?

You have a very clever idea, but your product does not work correctly under various circumstances.

Fix it or withdraw it before someone gets hurt and you have no buisness whatsoever.

I have been very generous, passing you back all the data and feedback from our tests, you have also agreed with there being a significant risk, but in the year since these tests were carried out you have done nothing to perfect the product, or warn people of the risks of using the wrong fuel.

This is gross negligence, and should the worst happen (which I sincearly hope it doesnt) you will be held accountable and prosecuted for corporate manslaughter/homocide.

I wish you the best of luck with the re-development of your burner.

Rob
This is hypothetical as the Jury is still out on what happened to your product. So we are talking hypothetically about safety. We are going to use an internationally made wood pellet gravity feeder as an example though.

BOB

Actually, by American Standards, one needs to make a product that is smarter than the customer. Sure there is a line of stupidity... the customer cannot do things blatantly that are stupid and expect the vendor to bail his ass out, but using the wrong kind of pellets in the product is careless perhaps... and also, if just a disclaimer in the manual (if the vendor ship you one to protect their ass) well.... that's enough until a catastrophe occurs. Like EXPLODING.

Wood.... I think if it has not been scrubbed you gave evidence of your own reasons why your product would explode from using the wrong pellets.

From the Series Monty Python

"look when the customer puts a nice chocolate in the mouth they don't expect to get their cheeks pierced!" Monty Python Whizzo Chocolate Factory Sketch

Now that said... what about if the product it traded, sold or given to someone else that is not the original buyer? That product still has to be safe... it still needs to be safe even if you load the wrong pellet. Comparing kerosene to water is not like two type of pellets... nor is gun powder (even though it has charcoal in it)---by a logical standpoint. Its like saying Cocaine is organic and safe because all natural things are safe. Pellets are in essence, comparable while water and kerosene are vastly different things.

Closing the case further... Its ENTIRELY okay to make a product that fails to work well and flame out if you use the wrong pellet... it is NOT okay to continue to make one that is unsafe.... and again... if you are going to make a product it needs to be made safe under reasonable operation... using the wrong pellets is an easy mistake.... filling it with gun powder is not reasonable. When a product is made and tested in this country that test is part of the equation. They do their best to find those weaknesses.

Bob.. as far as who you would sue if the product explodes... I am not sure what the remedies would be for an international application not approved for sale in this country (meaning its a private sale--- I am not saying you have to have one Wood). I know that with the myriad of American distributors of gravity feeders (whose products do not explode by the way -- not saying yours does wood) we can take them to court, we can report them to BBB and other entities... the consumer has remedies. Heck... if we want... we can actually go to their place of business... or have them served to appear in court.


The folks in the UK recognized this consumer predicament early on.

Constable:It says nothing here about lark's vomit!
Whizo representative: Yes it does, right under Montosodium glutamate.
Constable: You have to have a big read label warning... WARNING!!!! Lark"s Vomit!

Monty Python
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Unread 08-08-2012, 02:42 AM   #8
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I have no horse in this race, perhaps I could lend some insight.... Ymmv


Quote:
Originally Posted by woodpelletsmoker View Post

In the sketch - am I to understand the cover is made air tight using a water bath? As indicated by the blue squiggles ?

While this water bath in a open air example would be a good air tight seal, there are two places that this is not true..... When the positive air pressure in an enclosed vessel exceeds the water column height of the water bath. And when a negative pressure is applied that exceeds the water column height of the water bath. Both would cause burning in the fuel chamber.

Now if there is no water in the water bath you have an air leak.... And again burning in the fuel chamber

If you have no water and use a blower, you run the chance of creating a Venturi effect, sucking air into the fuel chamber as air passes from the blower to the cooking chamber. This Venturi effect grows stronger as fan speed increases. This effect is also caused by the draft that is created as heat builds in an enclosed box that has a exhaust stack.

I've noticed that woodpelletsmoker builds smokers that are small with very short exhaust pipes or in one model no exhaust, just a few small air gaps.

I only skimmed the other posts , but if I recall Bobbyp's smoker was an offset with some long exhausts on it ( correct me if I'm off ). But something like 6 feet (183 cm) of pipe 6 inches (15.24 cm) that would create a lot of draft at temp.

I do believe that the cover fitted with a silicone gasket - well really a flat gasket fitted in the bottom of the water bath area would eliminate most of the air leaks that could be created. Additionally two clasps to fasten the cover firmly down to the proposed gasket would reduse the positive pressure issues and insure an air tight seal.

If woodpelletsmoker could get some pellets or someone send him some it would save a lot of discussion on it as I do believe everyone involved wants to see a product that works .

But really I think the issue is air , draft, and larger cookers than Woodpelletsmoker expected. I do not think the fuel is the problem, it just shows the effect, but not the cause.

If anyone has one of these mounted and having problems make a gasket ( I do not think stove gasket will work here ) of high heat silicone and weigh the cover down and try it - I bet the results will be better Then find a couple of latches to get the cover in place once you have confirmed the air issues are gone

Again this is only constructive comments to try bring improvement in what I think could be a decent product. As well as assist anyone that may have one of these and having issues.
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Viking 30 inch Gravity Fed Charcoal Smoker
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Unread 08-08-2012, 07:05 AM   #9
woodpelletsmoker
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Thanks Hook_Line_and_Sinker

The water tight height is about 4" inches.
As long as the GRATE is not blocked, the GASes will find the easiest way to escape, that is to enter smoker and escape from exhaust stack, other than to overcome the pressure of 4" height water pressure to esacpe from cover of fuel bin.
In my smoker I do not use an exhaust stack, there is no "SUCKING" function. The gases still escapes from gaps of cover of smoker, it is easier than to overcome 4"water height pressure.

If you use a STRONG BLOWER, it you BLOCK the grate, the positive pressure created inside the burner may overcome water pressure of 4" deep water around the cover.

Possible reasons of UK problem:
#1. Low quality of wood pellet, possible with high content of sugar, adding too much mud(earth), or add cornstrach, or other additives. Theoritically food class pellet must be pure wood.
#2. too strong blower
#3. too small grate gaps.
These 3 points are just my guess. I never see the real burner, I never see a photo, I never get any data.

There are several gravity feed smokers in the market like Backwoods, Stumps, Viiking, Superior. All fuel bin covers use gasket to seal. I used gasket too. But some time later, the gasket will fail and you have to change new gasket. Water tight seal is more reliable.

Again if you worry explode in my burner, there shall be many expoldes already in Backwoods, Stumps, Viiking, Superior.
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Unread 08-08-2012, 07:51 AM   #10
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ONE more VERY IMPORTANT point.

Please check my video http://my.ku6.com/watch?v=27SmiI-BP2...gBvAPw..#share

I mount my fan 10mm or less than 0.5" away from wall of burner.
This gap is BIG ENOUGH for fresh air to bypass to environmental instead of to enter burner if grate is blocked. That is my fan can not create higher pressure inside the burner.
If grate is blocked, due to low air pressure, fresh air can not enter the burner, fire will die. If any flamble gas produced inside the burner, due to the fresh air pressure blown to burner is very low, the flamble gas will escape downward ( due to positive pressure inside the fue bin) to burning pot and burning there.

Uk questions my explaination and asks me difference of my control system and his system, this must be the main difference. "too big blower, no gap in air inlet"
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Unread 08-08-2012, 02:10 PM   #11
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I suggest a permentaly mounted, Metal Tag or Sticker on the lid.
WARNING HOT SURFACE
Turn OFF Blower when re-fueling
Keep Lid properly sealed when in use



Also I am going to try the old flour and water mix for a seal to see how that works. The water evaporates out before the burn is completed, have to add water about every 2 1/2 hours.....
There does need to be locks or latches on the lid
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Unread 08-08-2012, 10:45 PM   #12
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Default I used MUD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeal Appeal View Post
I suggest a permentaly mounted, Metal Tag or Sticker on the lid.
WARNING HOT SURFACE
Turn OFF Blower when re-fueling
Keep Lid properly sealed when in use



Also I am going to try the old flour and water mix for a seal to see how that works. The water evaporates out before the burn is completed, have to add water about every 2 1/2 hours.....
There does need to be locks or latches on the lid
cheaper and reliable
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