The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ

Notices

Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 07-29-2012, 08:06 AM   #1
THE Meatman
Found some matches.
 
Join Date: 06-26-12
Location: Hemlock,NY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Low Grand Champ scores

after every weekend i take a look at the KCBS website and check out the scores. i have noticed a pattern...all the GC scores from the northeast seem to be lower, 655-670 than elsewhere, (say the midwest 690-700). has anyone else noticed this? is our bbq not as good or are the judges in this neck of the woods tougher? for example at the harpoon championships in vermont GC score of 670, RGC of 660. at the Racing for bbq event in Lees Summit,MO the top 7 teams were all over 670. am i being crazy? or has anyone else noticed this? thanks Meatman.
THE Meatman is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-29-2012, 08:09 AM   #2
Rich Parker
Babbling Farker

 
Rich Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-20-09
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

There is a theory that the judges are less experienced up North and that inexperienced judges give lower scores. I don't know if I buy in to that because I have seen and heard that master cbj give lower scores to.

I have noticed this year the GC point total here in MI have definitely increased over last year.
__________________
WSM and UDS - iBQ'n BBQ Team co-founder TheBBQSuperstore.com sponsored by Deep South Smokers
Rich Parker is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-29-2012, 08:14 AM   #3
Pack-A-Smokes
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 09-13-11
Location: Johnson City, TN
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I have thought about this at some length. My conclusion is that it is futile to compare one comps GC scores to another. If you had the exact same judges at each comp then you could compare, but you don't. If What scored a 670 in TX was given to judges in TN, it may score 675 or 660.
That is my take on it anyways. I don't really think one comp or one area has better BBQ just maybe more critical judges in one area over the other. I am sure there are some differing opinions on this.
__________________
Todd
Lang 60DX
22.5 WSM x2
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Pack-A-Smokes is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 07-29-2012, 09:24 AM   #4
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The same used to be true in California. For several years running, the west had the lowest GC score of the year in the country. As the judging pool gained experience, scores have gone up.
__________________
.
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-29-2012, 09:42 AM   #5
big matt
is one Smokin' Farker

 
big matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-06-10
Location: Banning,Ca
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
The same used to be true in California. For several years running, the west had the lowest GC score of the year in the country. As the judging pool gained experience, scores have gone up.
Northern Cal had the lowest GC score I have ever seen..Dave Malone(All Sauced Up) won a comp up there with a 611..that score will get you bottom 1/3 at most comps maybe even lower.
__________________
_________________________________
JOS whole hog cooker
MAK 2 Star
Facebook:https://m.facebook.com/pages/Leftcoa...440847709&_rdr
Our website:
http://www.leftcoastq.com/Leftcoastq.com/Home.html
big matt is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-29-2012, 10:18 AM   #6
boogiesnap
Babbling Farker

 
Join Date: 04-22-10
Location: NEW ENGLAND
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Parker View Post
There is a theory that the judges are less experienced up North and that inexperienced judges give lower scores. I don't know if I buy in to that because I have seen and heard that master cbj give lower scores to.

I have noticed this year the GC point total here in MI have definitely increased over last year.
i would suggest quite the opposite up here. i feel the food is such high quality, competition so stiff, and standards so high, that you'd better cook your arse off to score well. but what do i know, i've only been playing the game a little while.

also northerners can be a crotchety bunch.
__________________
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"][I][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][/FONT]"YAWN"[/I][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]-[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="2"]In memory of a friend.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

avatar by grillman. patent pending. :mad2::becky:
boogiesnap is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 07-29-2012, 10:29 AM   #7
huminie
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 07-11-10
Location: Gilroy, CA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I think there are three things that come into play. First, newer judges are taught to start at a 6 (average) and work up from there, rather than start at a 9 and deduct points if necessary. Second, newer judges tend to be "afraid" to give out high scores for fear something better might come along. Third, in some areas, judges seem to think of themselves more as "food critics" than judges and they critique the food, looking for the tiniest of faults to mark down for.

In the end, as long as all teams are judged by the same pool of judges it should work out. But ya, you can't compare scores from different contests and different regions and assume the food quality is different based on the scores. GC winning BBQ is awesome no matter what the actual score.
__________________
2011 CBBQA Rookie ToY - 6th Overall, 2012 American Royal Invitational - Huminie's Hogalicious BBQ
huminie is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-29-2012, 10:31 AM   #8
Slamdunkpro
is Blowin Smoke!

 
Slamdunkpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-27-07
Location: Northern VA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiesnap View Post
i would suggest quite the opposite up here. i feel the food is such high quality, competition so stiff, and standards so high, that you'd better cook your arse off to score well. but what do i know, i've only been playing the game a little while.

also northerners can be a crotchety bunch.
I agree and will add that I don't think there is as much "score creep" here.
__________________
Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team
Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA & Creekstone Farms
Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast"

Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens
-----------------
MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President
KCBS Certified Judge - #23289
Slamdunkpro is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 07-29-2012, 11:21 AM   #9
Lakeside Smoker
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Lakeside Smoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-17-07
Location: Methuen, MA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

630's used to win comps up here a few years ago. I'll take a 670 any day!

-Mike
__________________
Blog

In polite society, we have an unspoken agreement to call our obsessions hobbies. - Stephen King
Lakeside Smoker is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-29-2012, 05:31 PM   #10
THE Meatman
Found some matches.
 
Join Date: 06-26-12
Location: Hemlock,NY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by huminie View Post
I think there are three things that come into play. First, newer judges are taught to start at a 6 (average) and work up from there, rather than start at a 9 and deduct points if necessary. Second, newer judges tend to be "afraid" to give out high scores for fear something better might come along. Third, in some areas, judges seem to think of themselves more as "food critics" than judges and they critique the food, looking for the tiniest of faults to mark down for.

In the end, as long as all teams are judged by the same pool of judges it should work out. But ya, you can't compare scores from different contests and different regions and assume the food quality is different based on the scores. GC winning BBQ is awesome no matter what the actual score.
I didnt think it was supposed to be a comparative judging system. kind of like a dog show where you judge to a standard not compare this to that.
THE Meatman is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-30-2012, 02:25 PM   #11
CBQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
CBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-09
Location: Cumberland, RI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

It's not your imagination. KCBS reps have told me the northeast scores are statistically the lowest in the country.

There are some very good BBQ cooks in New England. Two of the last three winners of The Jack are from MA. So why are the scores so low?

I think there are two reasons: increasing demand and frame of reference.

BBQ is becoming more popular, with more contests and more restaurants showing up in the northeast. As a competitor, I like that I have more choices in contests, but it also means more new judges are needed, and they will all start with varied expectations about what good BBQ is.

I think the frame of reference for the new judges is different up north. Living in Kansas City with 125 BBQ restaurants within the city limits, or in Rhode Island with maybe 20 in the whole state, you are going to have different expections and experience. While there is a growing pool of qualified and experienced judges in the northeast, the general population still thinks that par-boiled ribs are great, and some of the new judges start with those expectations. I think some may also bring expectations of having a "fine dining" experience and rate accordingly.

For the most part, the best food still wins, which is the point of course. I don't think you can compare scores across regions. Even just in the northeast I don't think you can compare scores between say, Long Island, NY and Merrimack, NH. That's why NEBS and the Empire State TOY lists now use the percentage of teams that you beat instead of your score.
__________________
Chris
ZBQ Competition BBQ Team, Rhode Island
"The Most Dangerous Team in BBQ" - Jon Vallone
www.teamzbq.com

KCBS, KCBS CBJ, NEBS

Last edited by CBQ; 07-30-2012 at 02:41 PM..
CBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-30-2012, 02:58 PM   #12
sweetracks
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 09-14-09
Location: Caledonia, MI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Parker View Post

I have noticed this year the GC point total here in MI have definitely increased over last year.
I've noticed that too Rich. Last year we thought anything in the 660's would get us in the top 5 conversation, this year it gets 6-15. What a difference a year makes. Maybe everybody in Michigan just got better over the off season
__________________
Where the hell did I put the smoker?!?!
sweetracks is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-31-2012, 12:22 PM   #13
DawgPhan
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 08-09-07
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

not trying to start a blank measuring contests, but someone mentioned score creep the other day. 172's in categories didnt get called in Cleveland, TN and would have won every category in VT.

I know that you can't compare scores from contest to contest and that there are great cooks in NE just like there are every where. Just thought that I would point it out as a talking point. 2 contests, both had multiple world champs cooking, plenty of great teams and yet the scores are very different. Could the judging be that different? is it an issue?
DawgPhan is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-31-2012, 12:44 PM   #14
ique
is One Chatty Farker
 
ique's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-14-05
Location: New England
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I personally dont think the lower scores up here mean much. You still have to win your table. Whether that's with a 165 or a 172 doesn't really matter.

Some tables will score higher than others and there will be head scratcher scores for sure (I had one at Harpoon). I dont think thats limited to the Northeast though.
ique is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-31-2012, 12:47 PM   #15
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Lake Dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

> For the most part, the best food still wins, which is the point of course.

Chris hit many good points in there, but I think this (above) pretty much says it. No, I dont think it's an issue.
__________________
Hance - Lake Dogs Cooking Team - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook
Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from everywhere)
Lake Dogs is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts