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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 07-27-2012, 08:18 AM   #1
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Question Planning table for Big Joe

I'm working on a table plan for a Kamado Joe Big Joe 24 inch, 250 lbs ceramic Q.

I've seen a lot of tables with screws used to fasten frames to the 4x4. A lot of wood working sites say to use carriage bolt. My table will be made with cedar. It will be on 4 heavy duty 4 inch casters for easy movement for cleaning. 2x4's will be used for the rest of the structural framing. I purchased a Kreg Jig to keep the screws hidden.

Do you guys think carriage bolts will be necessary attach the 2x4's to the 4x4 corners or will the Kreg joints be strong enough to fasten to the 4x4 for the purpose of a table for a 250 Pound XL sized cooker?

Do I need to use 4x4 for this table. Will a well built 2x4 frame hold up over the years? Are 4x4 a neccessity if the table is on casters?
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Unread 07-27-2012, 08:43 AM   #2
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I'm not an expert however a lot is going to depend on use / weight / enviromental conditions. Carriage bolts with some Locktite will make the table able to withstand a hurricane structurally. Any type of screws have the ability to wear / loosen and eventually work their way free.

Anyway...my $.02

EDIT - It'll be more work however you can do a hidden carriage type of deal...use a forester bit to drill out a 1/2'' sizew hole on the backside of the 4x4 and then use a carriage bolt to fit. That way you'll get the clean look of a pocket joint but the sturdiness of a carriage.
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Unread 07-27-2012, 09:13 AM   #3
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I wouldn't go through the trouble of using carriage bolts. Proper length screws will be more than adequate given that's not going to see a lot of movement that could potentially shear the screws. You could also use ledger screws if you really want something beefy with the simplicity of a screw. I built a small deck/landing and a set of stairs for my grandmother and used the ledger screws to attach the ledger to the house and sunroom. I also used mostly screws to hold a lot of the structure together and it was rock solid when i was done. I consulted a structural engineer(my dad) and a certified building inspector( my buddy) on what to use so i know for a fact that it's built like a tank but the true test is the final product. It's very stable and sturdy.

It also depends on how big of a table you're building. I built a small table with wheels to hold my meat slicer and since it weights 100lbs+, it's very strong. I forget if i used 2x4's or doubled up 2x4's for the legs, i'll check and let you know. The tables i built for my grills are a different story though. The grill isn't heavy at all so i used 4x4's for legs and 2x4's for horizontal members. The one i made for my deck, pic below, is about 8' long and it hasn't sagged at all over about a year. When it comes to supporting something heavy, the span of the vertical supports makes a huge difference in determining the sizing of the horizontal members which will support the weight. If you could give us a better idea what you want then we could probably help a little better. I also like to build things a lot beefier than they need to be and for aesthetics i like things to look heavy duty. I'm sure you could use 2x4's and have no issue but it might not look right when built. The Kreg system is pretty cool. I have it although i don't use it was much as i thought i would. If you have any questions about the table for my grill, just ask.


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Unread 07-27-2012, 09:39 AM   #4
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I'm thinking the 4x4's are overkill for a 250 pound Q. I rather avoid using them since I want all the screws to be invisble on the finish product. That's a tall order when using 4x4 material. I have a feeling the Kreg joints with Gorilla glue will be more than enough with 2x4 cedar to hold a 250 pound Q.
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Unread 07-27-2012, 11:56 AM   #5
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Post some build pics if you can. I would love to see how a table for an XL is built.
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Unread 07-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal_Addict View Post
I'm working on a table plan for a Kamado Joe Big Joe 24 inch, 250 lbs ceramic Q.

I've seen a lot of tables with screws used to fasten frames to the 4x4. A lot of wood working sites say to use carriage bolt. My table will be made with cedar. It will be on 4 heavy duty 4 inch casters for easy movement for cleaning. 2x4's will be used for the rest of the structural framing. I purchased a Kreg Jig to keep the screws hidden.

Do you guys think carriage bolts will be necessary attach the 2x4's to the 4x4 corners or will the Kreg joints be strong enough to fasten to the 4x4 for the purpose of a table for a 250 Pound XL sized cooker?

Do I need to use 4x4 for this table. Will a well built 2x4 frame hold up over the years? Are 4x4 a neccessity if the table is on casters?
Cedar is a soft wood. Ceramic is fragile. Myself, any frame supporting 250 lbs had better be sturdy. Adding in the leaning on, shoving, and pulling BBQ tables undergo, I'd use carriage bolts w/ flat washers under the nuts. Screws are fine for things like the boards for the top and shelves.
That said, using screws for temporary assembly can speed things up till all the major pieces are in position. If you are like me, you run out of clamps before you run out of things to clamp. Just run them in where the bolt heads will later go.
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Unread 07-27-2012, 04:13 PM   #7
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Most of the movement on this table will be casual. Cleaning purposes. It might move 8 - 12 times a year and only a couple of feet. By no means is she going surfing. I'm thinking if I use enough cross members I should be okay. Most of the stress will be hold the unit up. The table it's self might be holding about 350 -400 pounds of weight max. Inc. the BBQ - Accessories.

The Kreg Jig joints are rated pretty high for weight capacity.
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Unread 07-27-2012, 06:10 PM   #8
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No offense...and you can do whatever you want...but I'd rather overengineer the heck outta something rather than risk a flaw or bad wood junking a $600 or $700 ceramic cooker.

But that's my opinion.
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Unread 07-27-2012, 07:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamus34 View Post
No offense...and you can do whatever you want...but I'd rather overengineer the heck outta something rather than risk a flaw or bad wood junking a $600 or $700 ceramic cooker.

But that's my opinion.
Carriage bolts have to be done in pairs. I don't think a cedar 2x4 joining with carriage bolts will work. 2 carriage bolts in 2x4 would have to be a hardwood piece. (Very expenssive)

I believe the structure would have to step up to 2 x 6 to propperly use a solid double carriage bolt frame with cedar.
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