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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 06-12-2012, 04:06 PM   #1
woodhappens
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Default Pro vs Amature contest

Good day all, I am a little upset about this last weekend. They had the Pro's on Saturday and Amatures on Sunday. I talked a friend into cooking the Amature competion which was his 1st one ever. He came out Saturday to see how the Pros do it and where to set up plus parking. He walked around to look at the other teams. We had an awsome time

Sunday there was alot of Amatures teams there cooking but, he told me there was 4 to 5 pro teams there as well cooking. This is the part that I am upset. Should a Pro team be able to cook Amature the same weekend they cook in the Pro events. I feel this is not fair. Someone trying to cook vs other Amatures not Pro's. The winners of the Amature contest was all Pro teams in the Amature event. This would make me upset if I entered an Amature event. I would want to compete against Amatures. If your a Pro team and only want to cook 2 meats you can do that as well in the pro event.

Am I wrong for thinking this or is this something that this is just the way it is. I love our sport and want it to grow and we should support our friends that want to cook in the Amature events. These our the next teams of the future. This is just how I feel and would love some feed back.
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Unread 06-12-2012, 04:10 PM   #2
CarolinaQue
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What do the rules for the back yard division state as far as what the definition of a "pro" or "amatuer" team is? Are "pro" team specifically disqualified from the back yard division contest? Did any body inform the contest reps?
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Unread 06-12-2012, 04:10 PM   #3
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It's a pretty lame thing to do but there are no rules against it.
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Unread 06-12-2012, 04:18 PM   #4
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Discussed here:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...&highlight=pro

To me, once ya cook Pro, leave the Amateur Div alone.
But, lots of different opinions and little, if any, guidance by the sanctioning bodies.

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Unread 06-12-2012, 04:27 PM   #5
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I know some orgs have a rule that states once you are "head cook" once than you can't go am, but say the head cooks sits out and the rest of the team uses all of the equipment and everything but the head cook is gone than they would be allowed.
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Unread 06-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #6
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I think that if an organizer has a sanctioned and unsantioned event in the same location, the same weekend, the same or different days, teams should not be allowed to cook both. Depends on the rules of the individual comp though.

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Unread 06-12-2012, 06:39 PM   #7
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This was a new organizer and I am sure that had a lot to do with it....
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Unread 06-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #8
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There's no officially defined delineation between pro and amateur. So it was up to the organizer to define it. If he did, and a team of seasoned veterans swooped in and stole the show, shame on them. If there were no rules defined, then its just a name to a contest. Pro to me means you make a living out of something, not a level of experience. Example, a team of 4 executive chefs from 5 star restaurants formed a BBQ team, never competed before, went out for the first time and placed... are they pro? Conversely a rookie team enters a "pro" contest and cleans up(know to happen), did they do wrong?
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Unread 06-12-2012, 09:49 PM   #9
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So the question remains... When does a team/cook become a "pro?"
First entry in a pro contest?
First GC in a pro contest?
First Call/Payout in a pro contest?
Whenever they want to say they are "professional"?
Very few of us make money on BBQ as a "profession"...

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Unread 06-12-2012, 09:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
There's no officially defined delineation between pro and amateur. So it was up to the organizer to define it.
That's it in a nut shell, at least for KCBS comps. If the organizer doesn't put any limits on who can enter the backyard comps then it's open season, rightly or wrongly. Keep in mind that most of the time the backyard or amateur contests aren't sanctioned by anyone - the organizer has to set the rules.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 05:23 AM   #11
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It is somewhat hard to define what officially makes team Pro. Might be fairly easy to say if a team has competed for years and won many (or any) GC's that they shouldn't even do backyard, but if it isn't against the rules then nothing that can be done if the organizer didn't stipulate who could sign up for Amateur.

I have no qualms about saying to anyone that in my rookie year we started out with a few backyard then did a few Pro and bounced back to backyard a few time that year then back to Pro. Some of the events we entered after our first few backyard simply didn't have a "backyard" division so to get experience we signed up for whatever we could. Heck in our first Pro event after getting calls in our first 2 backyard and doing well there we set a goal that almost everyone does, which is don't finish dead ass last. Well we finished dead freaking ass last and it blew. So then we did a few more backyard and finished with a few more pro.

So now to answer your question. I don't think it is wrong for what you are thinking if those were seasoned pro teams. I would feel the same. But depending how "seasoned" is where the "fine line" dancing discussion begins and will probably never end as there isn't a set of rules, only opinions. Though some events certainly do stipulate if you have ever competed in a Pro event no matter if you tanked and finished last, then you can't do backyard. But if the organizer doesn't stipulate then it is fair (fair being relative term) game.

Nordy posed very good questions about what makes a team a "Pro". But there could be even more criteria for defining Pro than even those. It would be interesting to see those questions in a Poll on the forum and see what a consensus might turn up. I'm guessing either way this discussion will be around "till the cows come home". Oh I said it .
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Unread 06-13-2012, 08:37 AM   #12
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I don't care who competes in the backyard contests. Just put the backyard teams all together at the contest.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #13
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just out the "pros" so that the rest of us can make sure and mock them next time we see them for bottom feeding. they didnt break anything but man law. They probably toted their checks home in their purse.
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Unread 06-13-2012, 09:15 AM   #14
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I keep seeing the term "pro event" thrown out in the posts, so with that, what made those events "pro" ?

I have never seen an event advertised as "pro only". Yet i have seen "shadetree" where it was specified "first time competitors" or "once a year" competitors only.

So if i arrive at a contest and its full of weekend warriors is it then decided its amateur?

If a so called pro contest fills up with all first year or rookie teams and no veterans, what is it?

If an unlabled event attracts the jack and ar winners does that make it a different contest all of a sudden(not to me)

Maybe it was regional with the NE having little to no choices but when i started out competing i was going against ray lampe and adam perry lang. A contest was a contest was a contest.

I dont think anyone who considers competing and making the investment is going in without the ability to win. They already have the skills and only need to learn timing. If they can get timing down the "any given day" will set in and a first year amateur team can walk away with the gold.


So i guess unless the organizer states first time teams or once a year competitors or something specific, theres no dog in the fight and the contest is wide open.



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Unread 06-13-2012, 09:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
I keep seeing the term "pro event" thrown out in the posts, so with that, what made those events "pro" ?

I have never seen an event advertised as "pro only". Yet i have seen "shadetree" where it was specified "first time competitors" or "once a year" competitors only.

So if i arrive at a contest and its full of weekend warriors is it then decided its amateur?

If a so called pro contest fills up with all first year or rookie teams and no veterans, what is it?

If an unlabled event attracts the jack and ar winners does that make it a different contest all of a sudden(not to me)

Maybe it was regional with the NE having little to no choices but when i started out competing i was going against ray lampe and adam perry lang. A contest was a contest was a contest.

I dont think anyone who considers competing and making the investment is going in without the ability to win. They already have the skills and only need to learn timing. If they can get timing down the "any given day" will set in and a first year amateur team can walk away with the gold.


So i guess unless the organizer states first time teams or once a year competitors or something specific, theres no dog in the fight and the contest is wide open.



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most contests with both a sanctioned KCBS contest and an unsanctioned contest generally refer to the sanctioned as the "pro" event and the unsanctioned as the "backyard" or "amateur" event.

For example

http://www.hoghappenin.org/

which refers to "Pro" and "tailgate" events.

The tailgate entry fee is a fraction of the pro event and the prizes are much smaller. They even go so far as give free entry into next year's "pro" event to the winner of the tailgate contest.

Having a single unsanctioned event without saying who can enter is one thing. Having 2 contests on the same weekend where there are clear divisions is another.

I dont think that anyone broke any rules, I just want to know who they are so I can make fun of them.
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