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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 06-02-2012, 01:01 PM   #1
Smilin' Santa's BBQ
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Default Butcher beef injection question

I recently used some butcher bbq beef injection in some briskets, I personally don't think it did much more than injecting with au jus, but, people swear by it and are definitely winning with it. Maybe I did not cook them as week as others? Judy wondering what everyone elses opinions are on these brisket injections, are they really that much better, is it better with beef broth instead of water, or will au jus with some phosphates be just as good?
Title should read injection I got spellchecked and can't figure out how to change

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Unread 06-02-2012, 03:02 PM   #2
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are you looking for an answer from a competition perspective ?

Either way, I don't think there's a magic answer here.. some love it, some hate it, some win with it and many use water, beef broth or other combos. At the end of the day, if it's for competition, it matters what the judges like, not what you like.

The only way to know is to try it and see what gets you the results you are seeking.

(PS - I corrected spelling in your title)
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Unread 06-02-2012, 06:09 PM   #3
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Thanks, I am still new to this, but yes, I was really wondering what guys were doing in comps for brisket injection, I do agree that it is what the judges like, not Me, I guess I was wondering if anyone else used it and went away from it, with success.

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Unread 06-03-2012, 07:26 AM   #4
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My first question would be what did or didn't you like about the finished product? Next what is your brisket like before using it? Then when can help with perfecting the injection for your style or flavor profile.
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Unread 06-03-2012, 06:55 PM   #5
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I use it and have done well with it (if I cook the brisket correctly). The flavor is very consistent. Just try a few different ways of mixing it until you get one along the profile you are looking for.
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Unread 06-03-2012, 10:06 PM   #6
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The butchers is good stuff, but I would be careful with it. Judges around here are getting tired of the heavy flavor of Butchers, Kosmos, and ect. I judged the the local Sam's club event here a month ago, and every judge at my table made comments about how they were tired of that heavy flavor profile and gave the best scores to the one's that actually tasted like beef. Color me shocked
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Unread 06-03-2012, 10:17 PM   #7
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It really concerns me to hear of judges scoring down for "injecting." Judge it as presented or stop judging. Any judge heard saying otherwise should be banned.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 05:44 AM   #8
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It's really scary hearing that judges don't like the taste of beef. You can't tell me that you can taste Butchers or Kosmos injection. All they do is inhance the flavor of the meat.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 06:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourthwind View Post
The butchers is good stuff, but I would be careful with it. Judges around here are getting tired of the heavy flavor of Butchers, Kosmos, and ect. I judged the the local Sam's club event here a month ago, and every judge at my table made comments about how they were tired of that heavy flavor profile and gave the best scores to the one's that actually tasted like beef. Color me shocked

Did they also explain why they've been giving "that heavy flavor" a pass (or 9's) for the past 2+ years????

This is like talking about crooked politicians. They didn't get into office by walking in. The voters put them there.

The judges are the ones who have accepted the heavy flavor for so long. Now they're tired of it?
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Unread 06-04-2012, 07:08 AM   #10
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Unfortunately, you are searching for that one perfect bite in comps. However, you still have to be careful of how much and what you put on your bbq meats. You still want to use things that compliment the meat, nothing real crazy. Butchers, Kosmos are good items to use, just be careful with any item to not overdo it and make it the predominant flavor the judges are tasting. Its a meat competition.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lippy View Post
It's really scary hearing that judges don't like the taste of beef. You can't tell me that you can taste Butchers or Kosmos injection. All they do is inhance the flavor of the meat.
Allthough I agree with your larger point, and have said so in the past (specifically cautioning judges to NOT say things like "I did not like the injection they used") .... as a cook, I pretty well CAN taste Butchers/Kosmos/Fab etc. That is why I use it. IMO, and depending on how you mix it, it absolutely can be 'tasted' in more ways than simply 'enhancing the meat' (whatever that really means).

YMMV and all that.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 09:55 AM   #12
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Unread 06-04-2012, 12:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourthwind View Post
The butchers is good stuff, but I would be careful with it. Judges around here are getting tired of the heavy flavor of Butchers, Kosmos, and ect. I judged the the local Sam's club event here a month ago, and every judge at my table made comments about how they were tired of that heavy flavor profile and gave the best scores to the one's that actually tasted like beef. Color me shocked
That wasn't just Butcher's they were tasting. If you use the recommended ratios on the bag, you probably won't be able to distinguish it other than the increased moisture content, and enhanced flavor profile (enhancing of the natural flavors). Most of us are adding beef au jus, and/or beef broth, seasonings, etc. ...and apparently, the judges in Canon City this past weekend didn't like it

Oh, and as a BEEF lover... I find it hard to believe that beef broth, and flavors associated with it, aren't considered tasting like BEEF! If you want bland dry beef brisket, and that's what you think "beef" should taste like, then go to Dickeys! :)
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Unread 06-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #14
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It comes down to everything in moderation. Sorry if it ticks people off, but you can tell the difference between the two. I have judged and seen it myself. I got a comment card this last weekend as a competitor that the judge liked the slices and flavor of them, but the burnt ends got cold and "rubbery" I used a VERY diluted mix of butchers on the injection. I'm just saying. And as far as judges scoring down for injecting.. No they are not doing that. They are scoring down for that heavier flavor. Got the same comment from a master judge last weekend. He has seen this swing in taste this year at other contests. A lot of judges do the same contests every year in a region. Just imagin if you were getting the same thing year after year. wouldnt you want something different? Remember. dont shoot the messenger guys and gals. Were all just giving our opinions.
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Unread 06-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #15
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Mark,

If judges are suddenly changing their flavor profile expectations, then I guess I'm a bit surprised and taken aback. So, we as cooks are now just to change on a dime because a few judges are getting sick of brisket tasting like beef?

I'm not chewing you out for this issue, but I find it a bit funny actually.

I don't think I'll be changing my process too much. I just hope not to land on the table of rogue judges.
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