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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:44 AM   #1
QueNivorous
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Default KCBS TOY Standings

I know that Paul is no longer keeping the KCBS TOY standings on The Pickled Pig (or BBQ Bug) site. IMO that is a loss as I know many of us used that site to see where everyone stacks up.

The question is now where do we find this information. KCBS would be the logical folks to list this since (in theory) they keep all the results numbers for every contest for every team. However, it is my understanding is that it is "not a priority" to list anything but the Top 25. How many of you think this should be more of a priority and would like to see KCBS publish complete standings?
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:59 AM   #2
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BBQ bug was a great resource for people like me (a first year team) to kind of figure out who other teams were, how much they compete etc. It will be missed.

As far as the full listing of team rankings. I have no idea why KCBS couldn't do this pretty simply as I'm sure they have all the numbers.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:59 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueNivorous View Post
I know that Paul is no longer keeping the KCBS TOY standings on The Pickled Pig (or BBQ Bug) site. IMO that is a loss as I know many of us used that site to see where everyone stacks up.

The question is now where do we find this information. KCBS would be the logical folks to list this since (in theory) they keep all the results numbers for every contest for every team. However, it is my understanding is that it is "not a priority" to list anything but the Top 25. How many of you think this should be more of a priority and would like to see KCBS publish complete standings?
Speaking solely for myself, and not for KCBS or the board....

I think you can expect that to happen, but not immediately. I've spoken to Paul in the past and understand what his process was. Based on duplicate names, and spelling errors there was significant labor involved. At the present time, the office staff has enough to accomplish on a daily basis without adding this project to the mix.

When the new scoring software is in use, KCBS will have most of what is required in place to make the process efficient and accurate. It is an issue that has been discussed, and studied. I'd love to see it in place yesterday, but the tools/resources to make it efficient and accurate just aren't in place at this time. When those bases are covered I think you can expect it to happen relatively quickly.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:16 AM   #4
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Will kcbs show team names of non members?
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:23 AM   #5
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no,non members,team suspended,would not be on standings as i understand it
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
Speaking solely for myself, and not for KCBS or the board....

I think you can expect that to happen, but not immediately. I've spoken to Paul in the past and understand what his process was. Based on duplicate names, and spelling errors there was significant labor involved. At the present time, the office staff has enough to accomplish on a daily basis without adding this project to the mix.

When the new scoring software is in use, KCBS will have most of what is required in place to make the process efficient and accurate. It is an issue that has been discussed, and studied. I'd love to see it in place yesterday, but the tools/resources to make it efficient and accurate just aren't in place at this time. When those bases are covered I think you can expect it to happen relatively quickly.
Appreciate your reply. I guess my hope is that some of the KCBS BOD will see from others that it is a priority for the teams. I know that assumes they are Brethren and read this section.

We all like to know not only where we stand but where others that we compete against stand as well. I know it was also something I used when I was evaluating who I wanted to take a competition BBQ class from.

I don't know many of the KCBS BOD so figured it was a good place to get some discussion as to the value of the standings and have some of the BOD see that. Possibly I'm wrong, but I thought all this information is at the KCBS office's fingertips since they now keep Toy standings. Maybe they just have certain teams on the radar, I don't know. Anyway, thanks for your reply.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:49 AM   #7
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Again speaking solely for myself and not KCBS or the board....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledneck View Post
Will kcbs show team names of non members?
I don't believe that is set in stone, but since it is the KCBS ToY I'm inclined to support that. Membership, should come with benefits and I view this to be one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueNivorous View Post
Appreciate your reply. I guess my hope is that some of the KCBS BOD will see from others that it is a priority for the teams. I know that assumes they are Brethren and read this section.

We all like to know not only where we stand but where others that we compete against stand as well. I know it was also something I used when I was evaluating who I wanted to take a competition BBQ class from.

I don't know many of the KCBS BOD so figured it was a good place to get some discussion as to the value of the standings and have some of the BOD see that. Possibly I'm wrong, but I thought all this information is at the KCBS office's fingertips since they now keep Toy standings. Maybe they just have certain teams on the radar, I don't know. Anyway, thanks for your reply.
I understand, and share that desire. I had a blast a couple of years ago at the end of the season watching the weekly changes in a VERY tight race that I wasn't involved in.

The information is available, but the current system makes it relatively labor intensive. Teams are tracked by name. If results come in with misspelled name, or duplicate name that has to be resolved by staff. Staff currently has to verify membership etc.... The information is there, but the process is not efficient if accuracy is going to be a primary goal. Prior to rolling out a complete list, I believe we need to insure that the accuracy is repeatedly achievable. That will require some automation, that is not in place at this point.

We want to provide the service, and just as importantly we want to make sure that when we do we are able to provide a accurate product.

I'm more than happy to answer questions, when I can. Catching them on a forum is a luck of the draw thing. I just don't have the time to follow everything, every day. If you ever have questions or concerns you are more than welcome to shoot me some email at gmullins at kcbs dot us. I can't promise to agree with your, or have a ready answer, but I will listen.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
Again speaking solely for myself and not KCBS or the board....



I don't believe that is set in stone, but since it is the KCBS ToY I'm inclined to support that. Membership, should come with benefits and I view this to be one of them.



I understand, and share that desire. I had a blast a couple of years ago at the end of the season watching the weekly changes in a VERY tight race that I wasn't involved in.

The information is available, but the current system makes it relatively labor intensive. Teams are tracked by name. If results come in with misspelled name, or duplicate name that has to be resolved by staff. Staff currently has to verify membership etc.... The information is there, but the process is not efficient if accuracy is going to be a primary goal. Prior to rolling out a complete list, I believe we need to insure that the accuracy is repeatedly achievable. That will require some automation, that is not in place at this point.

We want to provide the service, and just as importantly we want to make sure that when we do we are able to provide a accurate product.

I'm more than happy to answer questions, when I can. Catching them on a forum is a luck of the draw thing. I just don't have the time to follow everything, every day. If you ever have questions or concerns you are more than welcome to shoot me some email at gmullins at kcbs dot us. I can't promise to agree with your, or have a ready answer, but I will listen.
Thanks. I understand. I didn't know who you were and that you were on the BOD until this last post. That's the only problem with screen names you seldom know who the folks are. Thanks, again.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:07 AM   #9
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maybe KCBS should hire paul.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
Teams are tracked by name. If results come in with misspelled name, or duplicate name that has to be resolved by staff. Staff currently has to verify membership etc.... The information is there, but the process is not efficient if accuracy is going to be a primary goal.

If you only track KCBS teams, their member number should be the base identifier. the lookup table will input their registered name. It is as simple as adding the field in the contest data where the KCBS Rep can do that basic data entry and the office merely handles a couple of macros. and post the data to a website.

If the office doesn't want to do it. Job it out to MMA. or someone else. This should be a basic function and a primary benefit of membership. Not something to be discussed to death.

Maybe if 200 teams would call in weekly and inquire what their standings were, that wheel would get greased quickly.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
I don't believe that is set in stone, but since it is the KCBS ToY I'm inclined to support that. Membership, should come with benefits and I view this to be one of them.
Something I'd be curious to know, presuming that only members are tracked and/or included: Does a team's captain need to be a member in good standing at the time of a competition for that competition to count towards TOY, or only when the program is started and/or completed? I'm not trying to game the system or anything, but would like to know up front how this is handled. Similar situations have been brought up recently with Sam's Club and BOD candidate eligabillity.

Thanks,

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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiesnap View Post
maybe KCBS should hire paul.
The KCBS already has an IT consultant, and I believe he knows what he's doing. The issue is getting the majority of the BOD to agree with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djqualls View Post
If you only track KCBS teams, their member number should be the base identifier. the lookup table will input their registered name. It is as simple as adding the field in the contest data where the KCBS Rep can do that basic data entry and the office merely handles a couple of macros. and post the data to a website.

If the office doesn't want to do it. Job it out to MMA. or someone else. This should be a basic function and a primary benefit of membership. Not something to be discussed to death.
This has been discussed in past board meetings, and there are "issues" which they feel need to be worked out. I'm sure one of our many board member brethren will correct me if/when I am wrong, but a lot of it has to do with how KCBScore works, how organizers keep track of teams/membership numbers, and the handling of non-member teams. Of course there's also the issue of a membership service, of only some teams should be able to take advantage, vs a competition service, of which all teams should be able to take advantage.

Personally, I would rather a software development organization handle this than a marketing organization.

dmp
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
Something I'd be curious to know, presuming that only members are tracked and/or included: Does a team's captain need to be a member in good standing at the time of a competition for that competition to count towards TOY, or only when the program is started and/or completed? I'm not trying to game the system or anything, but would like to know up front how this is handled. Similar situations have been brought up recently with Sam's Club and BOD candidate eligabillity.

Thanks,

dmp
Speaking solely for myself, and not KCBS or the board...

For ToY points, the head cook must be a member in good standing at any contest where points are earned. The current process, which is labor intensive, verifies that fact.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:25 AM   #14
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I agree that toy should be a member only benefit but a general team ranking should be available to all.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:27 AM   #15
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Jorge, your disclaimer is getting old and annoying
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