Thoughts on my recent Tri-tip experiment

[landarc]

I started out with this experiment, cooking a tri-tip like a brisket, in some ways because I felt wrongly called out by some folks, because although I knew it could be done, I had not done it and because I felt, the way everyone reacted, maybe it was worth doing to see what might be learned. I thought I would post my thoughts seperately. My questions leading to the cook in green. My thoughts in blue.

1. The Proper Cut for the Proper Cook:
Really? Is there only one proper way to cook a cut of meat and get it done "right"? Why would that be the case? What is there is a way to cook a cut of meat that is not "right" but still yields good results? Am I so set in my ways and closed minded that people who are pusing the envelope somehow threaten my way of doing things? Why do I feel the need to reject what I have not personally done?

Well, my training and experience tells me that even within a single discipline of cooking meat, there are many methods that can yield amazing results. There are certainly methods and techniqies that match brilliantly with a certian type or cut of meat, but, that does not mean other methods should not be openly tested and accepted. When I was learning French haute cuisine methods of roasting meats, a techniqiue that was common was to take an eye of round (the leanest piece of the leanest cut of beef) and to sear, place in a covered casserole on a bed of aromatics and to roast it for 4 to 6 hours at low temperatures. it yields an amazing peice of meat. I know this, yet my own biases towards defending the style of BBQ from my home state causes me to balk. Well, a tri-tip responds well to a similar method. I now know, for certain, that I could take a tri-tip, mess with it, cook it until it is probe tender and I know I could plate it for almost all of you and you would love it.

Would I cook a brisket like a ribeye, well, now I am not so sure. There is enough question in my mind to at least consider that although I consider tri-tip to be best at 130F, maybe there is another way for those that want their meat without any 'moo'.

Is BBQ only one thing? Should we assume that a method of cooking should be static, is one of my chosen passions in cooking so tied to tradition and nostalgia that it simply cannot have it cannons challenged? Doesn't fear of change equal weakness?

I would like to think that BBQ is a constantly evolving group of methods that have in common a connection to fire, smoke and time. I have long since given up the battle of lexicon, that somehow I must correct everyone that want to identify grilling as BBQ. In the end, if 90% of the people we communicate with believe BBQ is grilling that is what it is going to be. But, if an experienced cook wants to expand the limits of, shall we say, traditional BBQ by mixing it up, as long as it is clear that the boundaris are being pushed, I want to be one of those guys that accepts the pushing as a good test of the traditional methods. I think of BBQ as timeless, that means it must exist in time, all time, without fear of being made obsolete. In truth, the unchanging is what becomes obsolete.

What does 'cooking like a brisket' mean? Is there even a single method for cooking brisket? Is there a right or wrong way to cook anything? What's in a name?

In the original post that started this entire thing, the mention of cooking like a brisket fired off a storm of comments and ridicule as well as over the top defense against same. WTH? It is just cooking meat. Now, I still don't know exactly what 'cooking like a brisket' really means to anyone else, I know the 5 to 6 methods I use to cook brisket, and I can choose one to use as I see fit. It doesn't really prove concept to the OP, as I do not know if he would use the same process as I do. There is a tendency to not post details or ask large questions in small language that makes it hard to really know what a person is seeking. At the end of the day though, does a tri-tip have to only be cooked Santa Maria style, and how many folks even really understand what that means and how it is done? I suspect very few know, even fewer have done it. This tri-tip was not done Santa Maria style, reverse sear style or grilled, it was done per my own method for competition brisket. And it produced a similar product, with a good flavor and it made a fantastic BBQ beed sanwich for lunch, maybe a tad salty.

What will I learn? Why do I want to learn it, I already make the best tri-tip I know of? Really, someone called you out on a forum and you are going to spend $20 and 6 hours to show you are not an asshat when you already know you are?

Amongst all the other noise, I already smoke tri-tip, no reverse sear, sometimes on a gasser and it is universally praised. I have had no complaints, even for a $1000 lunch for 25 people, the tri-tip was a hit. I did learn that there is some potential for this method of cooking a tri-tip. It also presented to me, very directly that I have a lot to learn and I had allowed my mind to close to the possibilities of what might be done. I have been smoking meats since 1978, maybe I have gotten a little old in my approach. Yes, I am arrogant, in a quiet way, when it comes to cooking, I know I am an assh**le at times, it is genetic. Still, this year, cooking a dinner for my at the time maybe girlfriend, I was faced with a disastrously bad kitchen and I pulled it off. I have a lot of tools, but, I must make sure I don't lock in, as there are always things to learn.

Thanks to Bigabyte, I actually have more questions than answers now. Although he is apparently a negative and self-promoting as*hat, he also is a thoughtful and curious cook who presented me with some questions that I do not have the answers for. I sure like that about this forum. I would rather see crazy ideas that fail than just another 'Santa Maria' tri-tip.

What do you all think?

[Boshizzle]

I appreciated your post about the tri-tip cooked like brisket. And, thanks for this post too. As a BBQ buff, all of ths stuff is interesting to me and I think that experimentation and stepping outside of the "norm" is what will take BBQ to the next level and into the future.

[bigabyte]

I am as full of questions now as you are.

In fact, the next time someone asks why their brisket was tough and dry when they cooked it to 185, I'm not 100% sure I will be able to explain to them WHY it came out that way, because I believe this casts doubts on the beliefs of that process.

What's driving me completely nuts right now is what happens if brisket is cooked like a Tri-Tip. Every ounce of knowledge I have says this is a bad idea. I've never actually tried it though...so I do not KNOW for sure. The fact that a Chuck is good that way makes me think there should be no reason for a brisket to be similar.

I just know that if I try it though I will be disappointed. Honestly, I thought I KNEW that if I cooked a Tri-Tip like a Brisket that I would be disappointed too.

It's absolutely farking nuts. Does this mean Beef has two ranges of doneness as a whole? Either the 120-160 range, and then total crap until it gets upward of 185-205 when it gets tender and juicy? Why the fark would that be?

Like I said...I have basically nothing but questions right now. I'm not sure WHY I should believe anything we normally believe about beef in terms of how to cook it to be tender and juicy.

This is a good thing though. I haven't felt this full of questions, and had so many opportunities to learn like this for....well...years I guess.

[landarc]

I have to say, I am more than a little tempted to go get a brisket flat and cook it to 125F smoking at say, 225F, and see what it ends up being like.

Now that I think of it, I have had rare brisket in Pho, it is sliced thin across the grain and placed in the hot Pho raw. It is pink when you get it, but, red and just warm on the inside, hmmm...

[tortaboy]

Originally Posted by landarc

I started out with this experiment, cooking a tri-tip like a brisket, in some ways because I felt wrongly called out by some folks, because although I knew it could be done, I had not done it and because I felt, the way everyone reacted, maybe it was worth doing to see what might be learned. I thought I would post my thoughts seperately. My questions leading to the cook in green. My thoughts in blue.

1. The Proper Cut for the Proper Cook:
Really? Is there only one proper way to cook a cut of meat and get it done "right"? Why would that be the case? What is there is a way to cook a cut of meat that is not "right" but still yields good results? Am I so set in my ways and closed minded that people who are pusing the envelope somehow threaten my way of doing things? Why do I feel the need to reject what I have not personally done?

Well, my training and experience tells me that even within a single discipline of cooking meat, there are many methods that can yield amazing results. There are certainly methods and techniqies that match brilliantly with a certian type or cut of meat, but, that does not mean other methods should not be openly tested and accepted. When I was learning French haute cuisine methods of roasting meats, a techniqiue that was common was to take an eye of round (the leanest piece of the leanest cut of beef) and to sear, place in a covered casserole on a bed of aromatics and to roast it for 4 to 6 hours at low temperatures. it yields an amazing peice of meat. I know this, yet my own biases towards defending the style of BBQ from my home state causes me to balk. Well, a tri-tip responds well to a similar method. I now know, for certain, that I could take a tri-tip, mess with it, cook it until it is probe tender and I know I could plate it for almost all of you and you would love it.

Would I cook a brisket like a ribeye, well, now I am not so sure. There is enough question in my mind to at least consider that although I consider tri-tip to be best at 130F, maybe there is another way for those that want their meat without any 'moo'.

Is BBQ only one thing? Should we assume that a method of cooking should be static, is one of my chosen passions in cooking so tied to tradition and nostalgia that it simply cannot have it cannons challenged? Doesn't fear of change equal weakness?

I would like to think that BBQ is a constantly evolving group of methods that have in common a connection to fire, smoke and time. I have long since given up the battle of lexicon, that somehow I must correct everyone that want to identify grilling as BBQ. In the end, if 90% of the people we communicate with believe BBQ is grilling that is what it is going to be. But, if an experienced cook wants to expand the limits of, shall we say, traditional BBQ by mixing it up, as long as it is clear that the boundaris are being pushed, I want to be one of those guys that accepts the pushing as a good test of the traditional methods. I think of BBQ as timeless, that means it must exist in time, all time, without fear of being made obsolete. In truth, the unchanging is what becomes obsolete.

What does 'cooking like a brisket' mean? Is there even a single method for cooking brisket? Is there a right or wrong way to cook anything? What's in a name?

In the original post that started this entire thing, the mention of cooking like a brisket fired off a storm of comments and ridicule as well as over the top defense against same. WTH? It is just cooking meat. Now, I still don't know exactly what 'cooking like a brisket' really means to anyone else, I know the 5 to 6 methods I use to cook brisket, and I can choose one to use as I see fit. It doesn't really prove concept to the OP, as I do not know if he would use the same process as I do. There is a tendency to not post details or ask large questions in small language that makes it hard to really know what a person is seeking. At the end of the day though, does a tri-tip have to only be cooked Santa Maria style, and how many folks even really understand what that means and how it is done? I suspect very few know, even fewer have done it. This tri-tip was not done Santa Maria style, reverse sear style or grilled, it was done per my own method for competition brisket. And it produced a similar product, with a good flavor and it made a fantastic BBQ beed sanwich for lunch, maybe a tad salty.

What will I learn? Why do I want to learn it, I already make the best tri-tip I know of? Really, someone called you out on a forum and you are going to spend $20 and 6 hours to show you are not an asshat when you already know you are?

Amongst all the other noise, I already smoke tri-tip, no reverse sear, sometimes on a gasser and it is universally praised. I have had no complaints, even for a $1000 lunch for 25 people, the tri-tip was a hit. I did learn that there is some potential for this method of cooking a tri-tip. It also presented to me, very directly that I have a lot to learn and I had allowed my mind to close to the possibilities of what might be done. I have been smoking meats since 1978, maybe I have gotten a little old in my approach. Yes, I am arrogant, in a quiet way, when it comes to cooking, I know I am an assh**le at times, it is genetic. Still, this year, cooking a dinner for my at the time maybe girlfriend, I was faced with a disastrously bad kitchen and I pulled it off. I have a lot of tools, but, I must make sure I don't lock in, as there are always things to learn.

Thanks to Bigabyte, I actually have more questions than answers now. Although he is apparently a negative and self-promoting as*hat, he also is a thoughtful and curious cook who presented me with some questions that I do not have the answers for. I sure like that about this forum. I would rather see crazy ideas that fail than just another 'Santa Maria' tri-tip.

What do you all think?

Great points.

I think Tri Tip is one of the most versatile cuts around.

-Great Grilled
-Great Smoked to probe tender
-Great with just some smoke (Smoked, but not till probe tender...this is how I have done it before...was just
concerned about drying it out if I cooked the snot out of it)

[bigabyte]

Originally Posted by landarc

...it is sliced thin across the grain...It is pink when you get it, but, red and just warm on the inside, hmmm...

While the cooking method you described was different, these particular descriptions stick out for me, as it sounds so much like Tri-Tip.

I am getting a brisket tomorrow. That's all there is to it. Even though flats are pricier per pound, as a whole they are cheaper, so I will probably be doing a flat.

[caseydog]

Wow... and I thought I had a bad habit of over-thinking things. :

CD

[devious]

Well you guys got me nervous. I just found a tri tip. Not very easy to find around these parts. Do I smoke it on my UDS or do i cook it on my gasser. I've learned so much from this site. But I think after the whole cooking a tri tip like a brisket fiasco. I've learned there is no right or wrong way to q. I mean if you like the way it comes out, well thats all that matters. And thank-you landarc for going on that personal journey and finding out that u can cook a tri rip like a brisket. Whatever that means

[Midnight Smoke]

Originally Posted by devious

Well you guys got me nervous. I just found a tri tip. Not very easy to find around these parts. Do I smoke it on my UDS or do i cook it on my gasser. I've learned so much from this site. But I think after the whole cooking a tri tip like a brisket fiasco. I've learned there is no right or wrong way to q. I mean if you like the way it comes out, well thats all that matters. And thank-you landarc for going on that personal journey and finding out that u can cook a tri rip like a brisket. Whatever that means

If they are hard to find for you my suggestion is... To cook it like a Tri-Tip is normally cooked. Not like a Brisket. Search Tri Tip if needed for cooking.

[bigabyte]

Originally Posted by caseydog

Wow... and I thought I had a bad habit of over-thinking things. :

Well, some people just like to know the answer to a question by following a recipe or method, something like "how do I cook this ribeye steak"?

Someone told you how to do it, or you followed a recipe. At some point in the line along the way of that recipe or the advice passed on, a person learned that from experience and knew it would work. They may have even passed along reasons why it worked, but whether that knowledge persisted to your recipe or the words you heard is up to you really. You can ignore it if you like, and some do, thus the reason they just know it works, because that's how they were told to do it and they do it.

However, without people finding this out, your question would go unanswered, and you would not know how to cook your ribeye steak.

I guess I should say, "You're welcome in advance"!

[devious]

Originally Posted by {Midnight ☼ Smoke}

If they are hard to find for you my suggestion is... To cook it like a Tri-Tip is normally cooked. Not like a Brisket. Search Tri Tip if needed for cooking.

. Thanks for the advice. Im pretty sure the gasser is gonna get this piece of beef. Since its my first one I'm gonna take it to 130 and see what all the craze is all about

[landarc]

Devious, due to circumstances beyond my control, I do two paid cooks a year, tri-tips on gassers. Here is what I do.

1. Make sure tritip is trimmed to no more than 1/8" fat. Season liberally with a good BBQ rub. Wrap tightly in pladtic wrap and let sit for 1 to 4 hours.

2. Remove from plastic wrap, allow to cure for 15 minuted, apply a light layer of 50/50 kosher salt/med. Black pepper.

3. Set gasser to run offset heat at 235f, make and place smoke bomb or wood over heat bar

4. Put meat in gasser, cook to 130f internal, rest tented for 30 mins.

5. You must slice across grain.

[landarc]

You can also search Bobs Brew and Que blog for tri-tip as directions are there too

[landarc]

CD, yes, I will own that, I do a lot of thinking, perhaps overly so. I have developed a lot of practices and theories that are probably overkill. I believe it has served me well over the years. Tell me, suppose yoy had one chance to cook a special meal, and you found that the grill for the steaks was dead and the stove won't boil water, no oven, can you prepare a four course meal and rock the table?

[Wampus]

MAN I love this place. Really I do.

Bob and Chris.....you guys are as analytical as anyone I've ever met. You mean to tell me that after each of your respective plethora of hours in smoking and grilling meats, you're both thinking of either cooking a brisket to med-rare or slow smoking a TT to 190?? THAT is saying something.

I'm not suggesting that one should not experiment or eventually try everything out there by cooking it any number of different ways.....after all if this were the case, would we ever even HAVE BBQ? This is the stuff of which great inventions and discoveries are made!


Although I applaud you both and thank you for your thoughts, since I can't even farkin BUY tritip here and a brisket costs a bit of money......AND since I still consider myself learning the "traditional" methods, I won't be joining you in the experiments. I will, however, be very curious to see what you find out.


THIS PLACE ROCKS!!!!!