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For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter.


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Unread 11-08-2011, 05:49 PM   #151
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Because judge #6 is the furthest from the norm, and most likely to be less accurate than the other five. Sometimes losing the toss is painful.

Personal evidence: I cooked Sam's Club in Austin with Two Worthless Nuts. We tied for 7th, and lost the tie breaker. Solution? We needed to cook better. I think you probably know the head cook since he was in Shelby this weekend.

A change in weighting applies to EVERYONE. As a result it's more fair to everyone since judge 6 can't taste every sample.
Yes the 6th judge is the furtherst out but why not use that judge first instead of going back to the 5 who resulted in a tie.

Yes, I know Rob. and he needed to cook better in Shelby too.

Yes, changing the weighting does apply to everyone. But my question was have they changed the Appearance weight already. There have been a larger number of ties of late and that is what has me wondering. The reason given for doing it was to eliminate some of the ties, wondering if it has done the opposite.
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Unread 11-08-2011, 05:55 PM   #152
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I like it boogie. Something like this maybe?

9 superior
8 excellent
7 very good
6 satisfactory
5 needs improvement
4 unsatisfactory
3 bad
2 inedible/unsafe
1 disqualified
Ok, lets say you use these words where can the judge find the definition for each. What is satisfactory, what needs improvement? If you have 5 instructors teaching judging classes then you need something that says what each name means so it is taught the same way by each instructor not just his opinion of what it is because you then end up with 5 different definitions.
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Unread 11-08-2011, 06:00 PM   #153
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I have heard some people claim that assigning definitions to each number is a bad thing. I like the above better than using "average" but in either method, I've heard the argument that especially with new CBJs and those they pull in off the street and celebrities, those folks tend to think that if there is average or satisfactory on the scorecard, they're doing the cook a favor by giving them a 7 (very good or above average) when in fact, it deserves an 8 or 9. This is a tough one. I'd need to see a lot of input and pro's/con's on this issue before I'd take a stance.

Oh come on now Jeff, Stand up, I will tell you it is close but needs work. But it has to start with the instruction judges get on what each one means. Has to be standard.
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Unread 11-08-2011, 06:13 PM   #154
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I've replied and edited that because I misunderstood your post. One thing I want to see if elected is more membership involvement. What would you do if elected? I know that we made a choice to run for office, but since you've held our feet to the fire, why don't you tell us what you'd like to accomplish. Fair is far.

I want to see this orginazation continue to grow and move in a positive direction. But that has to be with some control not a rubber stamp. That cant be done if the board cant work together towards that comman goal. There needs to be more involvement by the membership in the whole process.

And TOY should be getting some real cash and recognistion for there accomplishment beyond a picture in the bullsheet.

And do away with garnish!!
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Unread 11-08-2011, 10:38 PM   #155
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Oh come on now Jeff, Stand up, I will tell you it is close but needs work. But it has to start with the instruction judges get on what each one means. Has to be standard.
I have to assume that was a bit of sarcasm there. Why would I jump into an answer or propose/support one on the board without first doing my homework and feeling comfortable with the proposed solution?
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Unread 11-09-2011, 07:07 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
Yes the 6th judge is the furtherst out but why not use that judge first instead of going back to the 5 who resulted in a tie.

Yes, I know Rob. and he needed to cook better in Shelby too.

Yes, changing the weighting does apply to everyone. But my question was have they changed the Appearance weight already. There have been a larger number of ties of late and that is what has me wondering. The reason given for doing it was to eliminate some of the ties, wondering if it has done the opposite.
System was changed to eliminate all the perfect 180 ties (not many of them in meats anyway). If there's a tie where it's not a perfect 180 (all 6 scores) then the tie breaker goes to the 6th judge, then to taste, tenderness and finally appearance. Very sledom do they use the coin flip to break a tie.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 08:10 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
I have to assume that was a bit of sarcasm there. Why would I jump into an answer or propose/support one on the board without first doing my homework and feeling comfortable with the proposed solution?
Yes it was, trying to keep it on the lighter side too.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:01 AM   #158
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Roy and Todd, I'm not sure where knowing what it takes to put on a contest is as vital as a solid knowledge of geography, some idea of team density and what's fair and the right thing to do, but I can see your point. What happens then if a contest in question happens to be in an area where the sole member of the committee who is an organizer is from? Approving or denying the sanctioning (or recommending or failing to recommend) might prove to somehow create an advantage for the committee member who is the organizer in the area in question. I think there is a very workable solution to the sanctioning approval process and we're definitely on the right track in this thread!
Understood on the bias issue, but bias can exist with cooks and judges, too. How is a cook voting for or against a contest in his home town any different than the organizer doing it? My point is that corruption in the process is no more likely from an organizer than it is a cook, judge or rep. We all have our own self interests. You as an organizer know all of the things that have to align to do a contest well. Picking the right weekend is one of those. I wouldn't leave it up to a bunch of cooks and judges... and that's me speaking as someone how only cooks.

There are ethical/character risk issues, but if the KCBS membership has proven anything, it is that we will publicly pull you out on the carpet and flog you into a bloody pulp for the slightest of infractions. Hell, we'll disqualify you if you have a spec of foil in your box.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:21 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
I want to see this orginazation continue to grow and move in a positive direction. But that has to be with some control not a rubber stamp. That cant be done if the board cant work together towards that comman goal. There needs to be more involvement by the membership in the whole process.

And TOY should be getting some real cash and recognistion for there accomplishment beyond a picture in the bullsheet.

And do away with garnish!!
Explain why <1% of the overall cook teams deserve cash at the end of the year? Not saying I agree or disagree. I can see two sides to this one.

I hope KCBS never eliminates garnish. Personally, I think it is fine right where it is.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:28 AM   #160
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explain why <1% of the overall cook teams deserve cash at the end of the year?

occupy kcbs !
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:32 AM   #161
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occupy kcbs !
I'm conferring with my advisors now, and may have a press conference later.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:33 AM   #162
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occupy kcbs !
<---- 99% er


Ever wonder if Herman Cain is a KCBS judge? Where else did he come up with 9,9,9?

BTW, I was groped (reach around) by one of the BOD candidates in 2007. Press conference pending.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:34 AM   #163
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I'm conferring with my advisors now, and may have a press conference later.
For some reason I see you taking a different route. I see a watchtower in your future.

And 4' of Type III 550 paracord.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:48 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
<---- 99% er


Ever wonder if Herman Cain is a KCBS judge? Where else did he come up with 9,9,9?

BTW, I was groped (reach around) by one of the BOD candidates in 2007. Press conference pending.
The G-String you bought me at Qlossal made me feel very uncomfortable. I'm retaining Gloria Alred <or however you spell her name>.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 10:53 AM   #165
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The G-String you bought me at Qlossal made me feel very uncomfortable. I'm retaining Gloria Alred <or however you spell her name>.
If you are going after the Plowboy fortune... you could probably buy a Happy Meal with what I've got.

I'm making you a new paracord thong. Be prepared!
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