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For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter.


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Old 11-07-2011, 05:30 PM   #136
Jorge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
Wow, got ya'll going with that one! The main idea here was brought up and that is training for organizers. The KCBS has to do a better job at providing valuable information for the organizers. We don't have to mandate a certain manufacture of boxes but provide them with a small list of 2 or 3 that meet the requirements.
I've replied and edited that because I misunderstood your post. One thing I want to see if elected is more membership involvement. What would you do if elected? I know that we made a choice to run for office, but since you've held our feet to the fire, why don't you tell us what you'd like to accomplish. Fair is far.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:05 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
Wow, got ya'll going with that one! The main idea here was brought up and that is training for organizers. The KCBS has to do a better job at providing valuable information for the organizers. We don't have to mandate a certain manufacture of boxes but provide them with a small list of 2 or 3 that meet the requirements.

Now on to the next one, somewhere on here Candy brought up the fact that the weight of scoring the appearance has either changed or they are looking at changing due to the number of ties. I have noticed what I would consider a larger than normal number of ties lately. Gastonia had 2nd thru 6th tied for one catigorie.

The way ties are broken currently the 6th judge is not brought back in to the mix until after they have been thru the 5 judges with appearance, taste, and tenderness individually to try and break it. I have lost the tie breaker when the 6th judge was higher than the other.

Why not try the 6th judge first?
Because judge #6 is the furthest from the norm, and most likely to be less accurate than the other five. Sometimes losing the toss is painful.

Personal evidence: I cooked Sam's Club in Austin with Two Worthless Nuts. We tied for 7th, and lost the tie breaker. Solution? We needed to cook better. I think you probably know the head cook since he was in Shelby this weekend.

A change in weighting applies to EVERYONE. As a result it's more fair to everyone since judge 6 can't taste every sample.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:24 PM   #138
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More ties are the result of two things: people cooking in the judge's ever narrowing zone more due to better education (cook's classes) and score creep. If judges really gave 6's for average and 7's for above average instead of just 8's or 9's *(OMG I can't give them a 7, it'll kill their chances, not after they spent all that money, time and effort - where's my cooler?) When judges only score on a 3 point scale you're going to get ties regardless of the weighting.

What to do? You could:
  • Change the scoring to 1/2 point intervals instead of whole numbers. (this would only be a temporary fix as the defacto scale would become 8, 8.5 & 9)
  • Define the standard of average to the judges so they have some frame of reference. (Easier said than done)
  • Add a 4th scoring criteria - Creativity. This would introduce some variance in the turn in's instead of the homogeneous identical samples we get now.
*sarcasm and satire, in case someone misses it.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:22 PM   #139
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up here, i think judges are pretty liberal with giving out 6's.

in my 3 kcbs comps, i turned in OK food in 2. finished middle of the pack.

3rd comp, re-tooled and turned in better food. finished RGC.

i personally think the system is flawed but not faulty.

i DON"T like the term average for a 6 though. the worded scoring system goes from statistical to adjective.

a 6 should be described as "satisfactory", a 9 "exemplory".

because what IS average?

i'd also suggest that tenderness is harder to nail than taste, and thus, if weighting was to be changed, it be there.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:46 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiesnap View Post
a 6 should be described as "satisfactory", a 9 "exemplory".


Please to fill in the entire score range - by George I think he's got it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:53 AM   #141
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I like it boogie. Something like this maybe?

9 superior
8 excellent
7 very good
6 satisfactory
5 needs improvement
4 unsatisfactory
3 bad
2 inedible/unsafe
1 disqualified
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:16 AM   #142
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Some communities are banning styrofoam clamshells. We tried some of the paper ones and they were crap. The biodegradable plastic ones we use are very sturdy.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:42 AM   #143
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I have heard some people claim that assigning definitions to each number is a bad thing. I like the above better than using "average" but in either method, I've heard the argument that especially with new CBJs and those they pull in off the street and celebrities, those folks tend to think that if there is average or satisfactory on the scorecard, they're doing the cook a favor by giving them a 7 (very good or above average) when in fact, it deserves an 8 or 9. This is a tough one. I'd need to see a lot of input and pro's/con's on this issue before I'd take a stance.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:15 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamprb View Post
Some communities are banning styrofoam clamshells. We tried some of the paper ones and they were crap. The biodegradable plastic ones we use are very sturdy.
I guess you and I need to learn HOW to cook before we complain about clam shells.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:19 PM   #145
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I guess you and I need to learn HOW to cook before we complain about clam shells.
Yep. Passive-aggressive pettiness is just what we're looking for in a BoD candidate.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:25 PM   #146
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My point is that my opinion on clam shells was not one that I was alone in. Telling someone that they need to learn how to cook first is petty, not addressing a concern but I can see your side as well. The BOD needs all kinds of personalities. I like to look at the big picture and value the concerns and feelings of the masses and not be quick to point and say, you need to do this or that before you have any opinion at all.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:39 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leatherheadiowa View Post
My point is that my opinion on clam shells was not one that I was alone in. Telling someone that they need to learn how to cook first is petty, not addressing a concern but I can see your side as well. The BOD needs all kinds of personalities. I like to look at the big picture and value the concerns and feelings of the masses and not be quick to point and say, you need to do this or that before you have any opinion at all.
I've gone out of my way to NOT campaign on personalities and stick to the issues, but if that got under your skin then I wish you luck if elected. People you've never heard of will line up to take their shots. It's probably not the way it SHOULD be, but that's the way it is. Best of luck to you.
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:13 PM   #148
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George, I appreciate your comment. I didn't take any comments personally. Some comments appear very pointed at pointing out weaknesses that are perceived and not actually known. It is very easy to do via a forum and I understand that this just happens to be the nature of the beast.
No foul, no harm.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:38 PM   #149
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Learning how to cook has nothing to do with Clamshell's but if Clamshell's are a real issue ( and none of this Kumbya' stuff that was posted earlier) then what a knuckle head I'am for wasting my time both here and my money to KCBS.

In the Pacific NW, I can see no styrofoam becoming an issue, but in the states were KCBS has a strong hold, I doubt that is the case. Perhaps the most "ungreen" sport you could be a part of is a cook off.

As a cook, measure your box, trim accordingly and cook.

Maybe if I got caught up in the minuta ( such as my box being a 1/4 inch off), I'd have a GC by now but to Jeff in KC's point, I find ths styrofoam subject absurd.

Here's a curveball..

KCBS has almost no presence in Texas, a state with a huge BBQ history and many, many cook teams with deep pockets. There are possibly as many cook offs in this state every weekend then are sanctioned by KCBS across the US.

What do the canidates think can be done ( if anything) to get KCBS a stronger presence within this state? PS - there is a great window, NOW, just after Sam's did three cook offs here.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:38 PM   #150
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Dude I think folks have been holding back on ya
On another well known bbq community you would have been roasted by now
Best of Luck to you
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