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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 03-08-2009, 01:32 AM   #1
swamprb
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Default **I tried Pitmaster Donnie T's Night Train Brisket Experiment**

OK-I read the thread, listened and absorbed the videos, and decided to try the Camel Walk myself!
This was hard for me, I mean to cook a brisket in the oven? When I have an arsenal of smokers at my disposal? WTF!! I agonized the last couple days, I thought to myself, I'll cook it in the Egg or Bullet and use the Guru at 275*, and maybe just let it get a little smoke before I foil it-but then that would defeat the pupose of the lesson. I gave into the FUNK!

My wife picked up two trimmed Choice Brisket Flats @3.5-4lbs each from Costco-I had her pick them out.(thrifty Mom mod) She has been bugging me to use Celery Salt and Black pepper on a Brisket since the first comp she had attended in Seattle and tried a sample some guy from Chicago cooking on WSM's handed out. I will grant that wish!





No trimming-they were small enough! 2 sheets of foil, rolled into a packet then into a preheated 275* OVEN and set the time for 4 hours.





Now, I've been meaning to try a High Heat Brisket cook for Flats. They are easy to come by and Costco always has Choice. So I took the larger of the two and rubbed it with Bovine Bold and fired up the WSM with Stubb's Briqs and Pecan chunks.



Smoked for 2 hours at 225-250* dome, then melted 2T Butter in 1/4C Apple Juice and poured it over the flat and wrapped in foil, raised the temp of the Bullet to 350-370* for 2 hours.

The flats were done about the same time, the oven rested @1 hour, while the WSM flat @30min. I probed them through the foil and they were 200-205* internal. Oven on the Left, WSM on the Right.





Under the broiler to crispy up the fatcap.





Night Train-Leaving the Station!





Bovine Bold-Funky Drummer!





The Night Train was like buttah! It tasted like BEEF, pot roast fall apart tender, WTF!! I LOVED IT! (notice how I say LOVED IT?)

The Funky Drummer is what the Judges might have liked, my kids all devoured it on sliced bread sammiches. The smoke ring is nice, the spice mix is great, I sliced it thick and the thinner slices would probably get me decent scores. I think I would cooler it longer at a comp and inject it, but for my first virgin attempt it came out great!

I'm like Darrin McGavin in "The Christmas Story" always peekin' and tastin' the turkey. So the whole idea of setting the Night Train flat in the oven and walking away was a hard pill to swallow. I don't cook many packers, and my attempts at smoking flats have been so-so to shoe leather. This was a good lesson, as I have never knelt before any of the Texas BBQ altars, these two cuts of beef rival any I've eaten before.

Try it yourself and see-Give in to the FUNK!!!
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Unread 03-08-2009, 04:07 AM   #2
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ooooooooooooooooohhhh grandma

Remember that feel man, lock it in the brain. Now you don't have to use foil ever again... just target that feel
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Unread 03-08-2009, 04:17 AM   #3
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Oh. I see foil in my future...
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Unread 03-08-2009, 11:11 AM   #4
JD McGee
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Great job Brian...excellent post and comparison! I also enjoyed the taste of the "Funk" rubbed version...
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Unread 03-08-2009, 02:26 PM   #5
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I bought my flat today. It's supposed to rain later this week, what a better time to use the oven.

Did your WSM brisket get to the same texture as the oven brisket?
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Unread 03-08-2009, 05:35 PM   #6
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Nice report Brian, thanks for this.
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Unread 03-08-2009, 06:23 PM   #7
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nice smoke ring
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Unread 03-08-2009, 06:40 PM   #8
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It sure looks good no matter how you cook it.
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Unread 03-08-2009, 06:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
ooooooooooooooooohhhh grandma

Remember that feel man, lock it in the brain. Now you don't have to use foil ever again... just target that feel
I've kept my mouth shut thru the whole night train adventure because I couldn't see any reason to tell people to cook a brisket in the oven except to learn the feel of the probe going into the meat

Now I understand! It's to encourage people not to use foil Most smokers don't operate with the consistent temps of an oven (except Poobahs FE100 and everyone elses UDS)

Foil is a tool, just like your ice pick that you use to tell you when your meat is like Buttah I use my foil to cover ends that are drying out and sometimes to foil and braise (yes I said braise) embrace your foil BBFunk don't fear it
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Unread 03-08-2009, 08:16 PM   #10
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Nope... I could care less what people use.

In fact... I think swamp's trying this is cool because he was able (and may have been able all along) to make a brisket that tender with that nice of a smoke ring. This cajun guy has placed emphasis on a word that simply was not there. The word "have."

Oh Jesus... I STILL have to explain, LOL the "emphasis" was not there, not the "word."

This means for those of you that do not wish to use foil don't...because you don't have to... I know I don't... but change my smoker and I just might. For those that are... cool. But for those who (as i said) could not or did not know the feel... this would be a common excercise anyone could do to ensure you do.

Heck It would make more sense to challenge the whole "tenderness/overcooked" theory.

The purpose of the exercise was to allow anyone to target a feel that was not sure to extent of what the zenith of the Brisket Textureness could be. The reader was encouraged to then try to duplicate that texture from memory. I could give 2 chits how they do it either.

I do not use foil. So farking what. I would endeavor to say I was using foil as early as 1983 but it is not a fun thing with the amount of briskets I was doing at that time -- 30 or so a day.

I DO, at times use butcher paper, but only because it is superior to foil in my style of bark, that's all.

I believe I made it CRYSTALLINE I was not even taking about using foil IN ACTUAL BBQ or I would not have suggested using it in the oven. Frankly.. I even thought about a simmering instruction but I knew all hell would break loose and people simply would not listen. LOL

I worried also that my post might make some people who never would have used foil, use it.... but alas I thought it very important considering the considerable mail I was getting describing their briskets.

Now... what do I think about foil and its use? There is no difference from a cooking standpoint between foiling your meat and simmering it in a pot with the lid on. Argue how you may... it is the same thing. Period! End of legitimate discussion. Same! It does the same thing to the meat, as i so precisely wrote.

How do I feel about boiling or simmering? I commented on that as well. Anyone that says that BBQ is this or that but one thing it is not is simmering, is either lying to themselves or unfamiliar with food history as it applies precisely to Smoked meats in THIS country. To which I also explained profusely.

So yes, foil is a tool, simmering is a tool (just an illegal one from competition standards)......... so is butcher paper, the pan I use, people dependence on injections, and the fan assist I use.

DUH!

Not even I would be so discreet as to try a way to disway people from using foil by asking them to use it.
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Last edited by barbefunkoramaque; 03-08-2009 at 09:14 PM..
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Unread 03-08-2009, 09:19 PM   #11
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Nice write up and pics, Brian.
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Unread 03-09-2009, 01:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
In fact the more I read this and the little emoticons the more I really think you should just get bent.
Telling someone to 'get bent', is one way to 'get bounced'. You are free to disagree with someone, but it will remain civil.

I hope you will take it on faith that I'm serious, since I chose to skip the emoticons.

Moderators Note: There is no need for anyone else to contribute to that portion of the discussion.
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Unread 03-09-2009, 01:17 PM   #13
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WAR!...ohoyea...hoo!...what is it good for?...absolutely nothing...say it again y'all...!!!
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Unread 03-09-2009, 01:57 PM   #14
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Jorge beat me to this while I was typing.

lately, due to our size and growth, its become apparent that we need to become more aware of who we are and where we, The BBQ Brethren, where we came from and our goals.

This is an excerpt from our charter that's listed in the welcome section. Please pay attention to #4.

Quote:
Who? Our Charter
• To promote the art of low and slow thru education, friendships, and camaraderie
.• To assist our members to produce the best BBQ they ever made, and thru this food, comes our ability to educate the public, our friends, our family, to what is REAL BBQ.
• To build the best knowledge base on the internet for BBQ.
• To maintain an open mind that there is NO ONE WAY, and No perfect cooker. We live by the fact that it is the cook not the cooker, its the passion not the steel, that produces great BBQ. We support and respect all techniques and all pits.
• To encourage those that have even the slightest interest or curiosity in Competition BBQ to get out there and compete. Our new and our veteran competitors are here to help you take that walk to the podium.
• Most important, To have FUN. To enjoy our craft, to enjoy our friendships and to build on the passion that lets us go to bed smelling like smoke and wake up with soot on our pillows.
In The BBQ Brethren Forum, where there is NO ONE WAY and this is just another technique, another idea, another thing to try. It may or may not work for the individual, but it is there to at least experiment with.

That being said, I would appreciate(read that as insist), that these types of threads be read for where they are. A forum that encourages experimentation and respects conflicting techniques. Additionally, I would appreciate that they be presented as an individuals concepts and ideas,without discrediting another conflicting style or alternative approach.

Now, these post from barbefunkoramaq are what they are. Written in his style and I am sure with the intention of being informative and maybe educational as well as entertaining. But they are his techniques, and his beliefs and his stye. Some may heed what is written, while other may dismiss it. Some will understand and accept, and others will close the thread on post #1. In some cases, we may fire up the pit and try, and in others, the ignore button is your friend.

And most of all.. No flaming and no conflict. DISCUSS!
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Unread 03-09-2009, 02:17 PM   #15
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Hey Swamp nice lookin' briskets. I gotta try this experiment. I think it is a good idea on how to get the texture right. So I will try the funk when I get the chance. I like the idea that there are various ways to accomplish the same ends and that is cool because things would be boring if we all did it the same way. I have been using paper instead of foil for a little while and like the crispier bark I get. Will post the pron when I get the time to do the experiment.
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