Judging question

[Fat Freddy]

Hi all, I already know the answer to this but I am hoping somebody can steer me in the right direction for a buddy of mine while i wait for an "official" email.

Here is what we are disputing, we are both KCBS certified judges though in different areas. Specifically what we are arguing about is chicken, he says it doesnt matter if there are 2 legs, 2 wings, and 2 thighs or any combination as long as there are 6 pieces. I say there has to be a specific amount of the same thing to be judged, I mean how can Judge 1 judge a leg and Judge 6 judge a wing at the same table. I would think this would be a disqualification or at least a 1 from the judges that did not get the main thing. His argument is that if there is an equal number then they have to judge what is presented. He has said this is how they are instructed at the judges meetings but this seems to go completely against what I was taught by Mike Lake.

If somebody knows exactly where to steer me to correct him or heaven forbid me please let me know. I couldnt find the exact example so i sent an email and am waiting for a response but being Friday may not hear anything for a while.

He also seems to try to steer competitors from using garnish, where I say watch your scores if you dont even though you are not supposed to score on the garnish, and we all know that NEVER happens

One of us needs a refresher course, and he is a great guy but I hope its him.

[fnbish]

While having different pieces in the box does sound strange we were taught that as long as there are 6 pieces in the box it is completely legal. I just too the class over the summer and am new, but I'm pretty sure it would be fine. Each judge would simply judge whatever piece they got. I'm guessing that scenario would not happen often .

[KC_Bobby]

2 legs, 2 wings, and 2 thighs - legal, but I wouldn't advise it. Very possible some of the judges are going to want whats not left in the tray, hard to say how that will impact their scoring.

[Southern Home Boy]

You judge what is presented. Doesn't matter what it is so long as there are six separate pieces. I've seen it at every comp I've judged (granted that's not too many).

[Fat Freddy]

Fair enough, this is why they need to have refresher courses for judges. I am a judge and I admit it.

I posted this on another forum and have had a few judges agree with me, but almost everyone tends to agree with him.

Time for me to eat crow, maybe it will be 2 legs,2 wings, 2 breasts

[Rookie'48]

Originally Posted by KC_Bobby

2 legs, 2 wings, and 2 thighs - legal, but I wouldn't advise it. Very possible some of the judges are going to want whats not left in the tray, hard to say how that will impact their scoring.

Even though it's legal I think that it would hurt you to do this. The words in blue in Bobby's post are the reason that it might tank on you. You're suppossed to judge "as presented by the cook" but sometimes personal taste gets in the way.

I tend to agree that an ongoing education class would be a good thing or maybe having each judge volunteer at a CBJ class every so often would work. When I took my class in early '07 I was blasted by so much new info that it all didn't sink in. I have since volunteered at two more classes & have re-learned stuff that I forgot or flat out learned things that I missed at first. I'll most likely keep volunteering every so often just so I can keep up to speed on things .

[Sylvie]

A a recent comp I judged, we were presented with six thighs and two drumsticks. We were advised that since there were six plus two distinct pieces, it was ok. Turned out that each judge only took the thighs and left the two drumsticks.

[ModelMaker]

Come on people, each one of you got a rule book at class plus the complete rules are listed online at KCBS.

16) Each contestant must submit at least six (6) portions
of meat in an approved container. Chicken, pork and
brisket may be submitted chopped, pulled, sliced, or diced
as the cook sees fit, as long as there is enough for six (6)

judges. Ribs shall be turned in bone

‐in. Judges may not cut,

slice, or shake apart to separate pieces. If there is not
enough meat for each judge to sample, the shorted
judge(s) will score a one (1) on all criteria, and the judges

having samples will change the Appearance score to one

You can legaly put six portions of anything in the box, but you may do so at your own peril!!
However your inquisitive attitude is to be congratulated. When you think you know it all is when you become a problem. I try to learn something new at every oppertunity.
Ed

[comfrank]

My very first KCBS comp, before I knew what I was doing, I cooked one whole chicken and turned in 2 breasts, 2 thighs, to drumsticks, and 2 wings. I didn't do very well, but I definitely did not get DQ'ed!

--frank in Wilson, NY

[Rookie'48]

Frank, I would love to see that box! I'm trying to imagine that much meat put on display in one styro container . If it was arraigned with any skill whatsoever you should have a good appearance score.

[Big Mike]

I agree with the others. While it is legal, I wouldn't do it. If I put more than one type in the box, I ensure there is at least 6 portions of each so each judge can try both.

[Matt_A]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I agree with the others. While it is legal, I wouldn't do it. If I put more than one type in the box, I ensure there is at least 6 portions of each so each judge can try both.

And the boxes are only so big.... I have seen six thighs and 6 slices of breast meat in one box, doubt that any more would have fit.