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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 09-12-2011, 06:32 PM   #16
99ways2die
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BUMP and thanks pyle for trying to get some real info.
Hate to say it but the a lot of relies are on par of what the teenagers write on my damn car forums...."hey, i drive this and i have no problems" or "BFGs are the best and nothing else compares"
I'm not trying to criticize anyone but as trivial as the subject may seem to some people, others may have valid concerns.

Do I really care that much how bad the wood I use o my food is for me? Somewhat little at this point.....but I'm also almost 1/2 way through this life (if I live long enough to hit 80) and a little crap from smoke on my food is nothing compared to what I have been exposed to already.
But, mentioning my little one again, the kiddo's only 1 year old, and as little as smoked food may affect her for the foreseeable future I'd rather not "add fuel to the fire" if there is no reason to.
Hope ya'll understand.

PS:
You, in Cliffwood Beach, where'd u get real wood from - drift?
:P
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:03 PM   #17
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I was a chemical soldier in the army. I learned there are a few ways to drive off chemicals. One of the biggest chemicals used is Diazinon an active ingredient in a lot of nerve agents (and insecticides in WAY LOWER doses), fire (high heat) neutralizes it. Having said that, even though high heat kills it, vapor inhalation is the best way to get chemical absorption in enemy troops.

Take that as you will.
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:13 PM   #18
99ways2die
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...and I guess this is exactly what we want to determine.

Assuming that the smoking wood we use has ........ (makes no diff @ this point) percentage of human introduced chemicals, what kind of health hazard, if any, do we introduce to ourselves while consuming foods smoked with aforementioned wood.

PS:
Home you dont use that "i used to be a chemical soldier" line when you talk to chicks @ the bar/etc.......I can only imagine how their eyes start to glow.
;)
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ways2die View Post
PS:
Home you dont use that "i used to be a chemical soldier" line when you talk to chicks @ the bar/etc.......I can only imagine how their eyes start to glow.
;)
I'm married, and I got better game than that, if you're wondering.

And if the eyes glow, run away.
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:21 PM   #20
99ways2die
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Not wondering at all.............but:

I'll bet you make some killer rubs.
;)
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ways2die View Post
Not wondering at all.............but:

I'll bet you make some killer rubs.
;)
-99
I really try to limit the diazinon in my rubs, but it gives such a wonderful umami flavor, I can't stay away.
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:49 PM   #22
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I get my pecan from a working orchard and have not noticed anything funky.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:53 PM   #23
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All the information I have been able to come across will depend on the exact chemical or pesticide being used on the tree. Each pesticide has a label with the requirements for how long it takes the chemicals to breakdown or leach away. There are several factors that also determine how long it takes, like environment, water, sunlight, and temperature. I have also requested some more information from our local agriculture ext. office. if they send me anything I will let you know, but usually heat will destroy it and the drying time to season it will also kill off all chemicals and I haven't found any chemical that says it lasts longer than 6 months.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 07:57 PM   #24
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Most chemicals that are effective will have a ridiculously short half life. They work because the chemicals that make them effective delivery vehicles (of death) evaporate easily and quickly, and that makes for short life.

This is military grade chemicals though YMMV.
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 09:38 PM   #25
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Noah,
Great question, but not much of a concern on my end. Fruit trees are usually pruned late in their dormant season. I would say on average 5 months or longer for apple trees and longer than that for peaches, cherry etc. I couldn't really say about citrus woods as I have never raised any citrus.
I believe you (we) are probably at a greater health risk just form inhaling the smoke while checking or stoking our pits, than from any thing that might have been applied to the tree prior to us burning it.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 10:10 PM   #26
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You could always debark the wood if your worried!!! You might want to wash your fruits and vegetables with soap and water also before you eat them, to clean off any pesticide residue. There is so much crap on or in all of our food, you could worry yourself to death about it. Unless you grow it or raise it yourself you don't know whats in it!
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Unread 09-13-2011, 08:30 AM   #27
99ways2die
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I've got some time to look around (well, I've got a lot of time...if i need it) and I started to do some digging online this AM.
The following is a Q&A from a certain site (not sure if linking/etc is allowed).
It doesn't answer our Qs directly and may be off target a bit, but it does touch on some of the subjects at hand.
I'll bold everything I think is related to our topic here and may cut some irrelevant stuff out.

Quote:
What can I tell people about smoking food with wild cherry wood when
they have been told there is arsenic in wild cherry wood? They want to know
if
it is safe. Also, what about the issue of cyanogenic compounds? Is this a concern,
and if so, I assume it is a non-issue if the wood is aged a period of time?




Our response:
Good Afternoon,

...

First, it is important to note that....Wood Products
only manufacturers gourmet “cooking” wood from forest trees. We do not,
and will not, produce our products from orchard-based woods. Our reason
is simple – we do not believe in smoking foods over woods that have been or have the potential to be sprayed or growth enhanced with chemicals .
As you’ve already indicated, trees produce prussic acid, better known as
hydrogen cyanide. We feel that humans can use woods produced in nature when they have been left alone, unburden by the human hand in trying to manage what sometimes is the normal cyclical pattern of nature. In the areas in which we purchase the heartwood for our gourmet wood production facility, the varieties of cherry (prunus pensylvanica L.f.) we commonly deal with are: Northern Pin Cherry, Fire Cherry, Wild Red Cherry, and Pigeon Cherry. Of course, predominately, we bring in Wild Red Cherry. Your portion of the country generally in known for production of
Southern Crab Apple, Narrow-Leaf Crab, Wild Crab, and Eastern Chokecherry. The main difference in these woods is that our forest trees tend to be on the sweeter side versus the sour. For the most part, hydrogen cyanide is found mainly in the leaves and seeds of the cherry tree. Black Cherry bark is also commonly used in herbal cough remedies.
The predominate opinion is that when used in small quantities, the hydrogen cyanide is a mute issue. Now let’s talk about the smoking application of wood. Cyanogenic compounds WOULD remain a factor for our production of cooking wood. This is due to the fact that we do not allow our gourmet woods to deplete their moisture content to a level that other wood product manufacturers may do
(what is commonly referred to as “seasoning of the wood”). For ideal
smoking of foods, wood needs to have a moisture level preferably at 20% or higher. This results in the wood smoldering rather than burning at a rapid rate. The resulting smoke from the plant material provides for that wonderful flavor. Because smoking is done at low temperatures for longer periods of time, the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH’s) found in wood moelcules are not stimulated as they normally would be when cooking, say, a steak over a hot flame. Thus, the health risk associated with PAH’s and smoked foods is not considered an issue.

Our main concerns regarding woods used for cooking and smoking foods is to always ensure a bark-free product. Bark does not hold moisture but rather is designed to rid the tree of wastes by absorbing them and locking them into this area. In fact, this is the reason why bark-on woods burn so much faster than bark-free wood pieces. This portion of the tree is actually responsible for temperature flare-ups, tainted smells, “spotty” appearance of the food’s skin, and increase in the production of ash.
Addtionally, once the temperature is increased during wood-fired
cooking, heterocyclic amines, or HCAs, are created due to the reaction of the amino acides and creatine with the higher cooking temperature.

In a nutshell, a person is at greater risk of cyanide exposure in
treated
wood products for home construction than they are when consuming BBQ.
Knowing the source of the wood being used in the cooking application is vital to ensure that the necessary steps have been taken to prevent tree disease and pest infestation spread, as well as to ensure that the wood has not been exposed to any chemical/toxin treatments.

It is our hope, that one day soon, inspection of the wood products used
by restaurants, caterers, bbq competitors, and grocery stores who promote
smoked and natural-wood fired foods, will occur as normally as food
inspections. After all, I think we all can agree that what you cook the
food over is as an important as what food you are cooking!

Thanks again for your interest!

Still, can't be sure if and how exactly does this translate to pesti/fungicide use in orchards/etc and if the exposure levels are even comparable.

I'll keep digging, so don't mind the garbage spewing outta my mouth.
;)
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Unread 09-13-2011, 08:35 AM   #28
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From some Aussie BBQ board (opinion):
Quote:
Ladies and Gents,

Found myself a supplier of apple wood which I am very happy about. I agreed to make him some pulled pork and he said I could have as much wood as I like. It's going to be a great relationship! I can not justify spending $25 a bag on hickory chunks flown over from the US!! The cost and the distance it took to get here!! Complete madness. But when I spoke to both my charcoal supplier and the guy and my local barbecue store they both warned me of some serious health risks.

Others may have come across this following argument when speaking to someone who sells wood for smoking, they insist that the pesticides used in orchards are, of course, harmful to health when burnt. Therefore buy their stuff! Whilst this may initially seem to make sense and as I'm sure most of you distinguished brethren have worked out for yourself it's not true...Well, not completely true anyway. As a horticulturalist and a skeptic, the argument makes no sense. The most common pesticides used on orchards are glyphosate, imidicloprid and mancozeb, a herbicide, insecticide and fungicide respectively. Of these the only one that is systemic and therefore MAY still be in the wood, is imidicloprid, a neurotoxin that manipulates the nervous systems of insects. Whilst I would warn people away from drinking Confidor or other imidicloprid products, you are quite simply not going to expose yourself to the levels or imidicloprid that would cause acute or chronic toxicity by burning wood from apple orchards.

I dare say you are likely to have more exposure to imidicloprid from the apple juice you injected into the pork! Or the cabbage in the coleslaw, or the flea treatment for your dog, the neighbour spraying his roses............

So go find yourself a local supplier, cook him a rack of ribs and he'll probably be happy to be done with it!!

Tim
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Unread 09-13-2011, 08:47 AM   #29
99ways2die
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From the Wikipedia page on "smoking(cooking)":
Look up the full article if interested in details....although they didn't write anything about the wood itself (health-wise).
Quote:
Cancer risk
"Of various sources of N-nitroso compounds, intake of smoked and salted fish was significantly (RR = 2.58, 95% CI 1.21 − 5.51) and intake of cured meat was non-significantly (RR = 1.84, 95% CI 0.98– 3.47) associated with risk of colorectal cancer."[3]


Source:Risk of colorectal and other gastro-intestinal cancers after exposure to nitrate, nitrite and N-nitroso compounds: a follow-up study, International Journal of Cancer,Volume 80, Issue 6, pages 852–856, 15 March 1999, Read it online





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Unread 09-13-2011, 09:33 AM   #30
99ways2die
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Not easy trying to find specific info pertaining to use of pesticides/etc in wood and using it to smoke food.
However, as most of you probably know, there's plenty of info regarding potential health implications of consuming smoked (and grilled) food.
I'll bet many are fully aware of the possible risks.
Hmmm - so, to make a long story short - everything in moderation?
Probably.
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