Judging question

[tmcmaster]

Originally Posted by bbq.tom

Actually I hear these words A LOT more when receiving "judging instructions" for MBN than KCBS; HOWEVER, it is stated in both. I think that it is more emphasized in MBN as you actually get a brief on "how" the meat is cooked at the grill during "on-site" judging.

I have never done an MBN event, so I have no knowledge of such. But, I'll take your word on it. Thanks!

[Candy Sue]

Originally Posted by bover

For the sake of cooks everywhere that are looking to improve their recipes and techniques, when it comes to the discussions on comment cards at the upcoming meetings I really hope the rest of the BoD's feelings are more positive than yours. There's no denying that the current system has room for improvement, so please consider some of the suggestions thrown out here such as changing the format of the card to a check box style as opposed to doing away with them completely.

Thanks.

I can guarantee that the bod's opinions on comment cards run the full range. As far as my personal experience and opinion, it is only my opinion and there's 12 people on the board all with their own opinions. Besides, as president, I don't get to vote! I do like the check box idea.

[Rookie'48]

Originally Posted by tmcmaster

... judge the meat AS PRESENTED ...

To me this is the crux of the matter. As KCBS CBJs we are instructed to judge "As presented by the cook", and to me that means to judge the entry as a total. If the pulled is great but the slices are mushy - shame on ya, you just lost some points. If the burnt ends are the best in the world but the sliced briskie is way heavy on the salt - you just lost some points. If all I can see or taste is the 3/8 inch thick sauce instead of seeing or tasting the rib - guess what - you've lost some points.
If I give you a 6 or lower score I feel that I owe it to you to tell you why I think that your product sucked. That might include comments like:

"Way over done, very mushy"
"All I can taste or see is sauce, not the meat"
"Chicken was almost raw, way under cooked"
"Falling off the bone - over cooked"
"Nasty after taste - only flavor was chili powder"

I'm not trying to tell the cook how to prepare or cook their entry, I'm telling them why I scored their product that low in order that they might improve their score next time. To me that beats the hell out of giving a 9-6-8 with no explanation as to why I gave that a 6 in taste. Maybe the check box idea would work better, but I'd still like to have an area where I could leave my own comments.

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by Rookie'48

If I give you a 6 or lower score I feel that I owe it to you to tell you why I think that your product sucked. That might include comments like:

"Way over done, very mushy"
"All I can taste or see is sauce, not the meat"
"Chicken was almost raw, way under cooked"
"Falling off the bone - over cooked"
"Nasty after taste - only flavor was chili powder"

I'm not trying to tell the cook how to prepare or cook their entry, I'm telling them why I scored their product that low in order that they might improve their score next time.

Dave, I totally agree with you on almost everything you say - except that I would not add on the comment card: "Way over done", "way under cooked", "over cooked", etc., as these in a way are telling the cooks "how" to cook - just like saying "cut down the heat or take the meat off the grill sooner", etc. I believe to just tell "what" I found and leave the rest to the cook to figure out how to fix. Just my humble opinion.

[Lake Dogs]

Originally Posted by bover

For the sake of cooks everywhere that are looking to improve their recipes and techniques, when it comes to the discussions on comment cards at the upcoming meetings I really hope the rest of the BoD's feelings are more positive than yours. There's no denying that the current system has room for improvement, so please consider some of the suggestions thrown out here such as changing the format of the card to a check box style as opposed to doing away with them completely.

Thanks.

Josh,

+1

Thanks. ABSOLUTELY. Feedback is good. It can get MUCH better.

[Lake Dogs]

Originally Posted by Candy Sue

I can guarantee that the bod's opinions on comment cards run the full range. As far as my personal experience and opinion, it is only my opinion and there's 12 people on the board all with their own opinions. Besides, as president, I don't get to vote! I do like the check box idea.

Mind you I just wrote down a few there in my suggestion off the top of my head. I think by adding just a couple to each that we could probably hit the 98th percentile or better, and also hit the good old reliable KISS rule too.

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

Mind you I just wrote down a few there in my suggestion off the top of my head. I think by adding just a couple to each that we could probably hit the 98th percentile or better, and also hit the good old reliable KISS rule too.

Hance, Initially I didn't like the idea of a "check mark the appropriate box" as it limits judges to not think for themselves; HOWEVER, the more I've thought about it the more I like the idea of a check box system! It sure would speed up comment cards (slowing down the whole judging system being my pet peeve), as instead of having to think too hard about what to write, you could just check the most appropriate box to what conditions you found. HOPEFULLY, this would encourage more judges to leave comment cards for low scores! Not much makes me madder as a judge than to hear someone else at my table state that they gave a low score and know that they didn't fill out a card!!!
Not much makes me madder as a cook than to know that someone gave a low score and they didn't fill out a card too!!!

I would suggest a different comment card for each category (appearance, taste, & tenderness) so that there could be a variety of options particular to each category without being so small you couldn't read them.

[Lake Dogs]

I'm trying to dream up check boxes for appearance, but it's just so subjective, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. I think the score itself in this case pretty much says it, whatever it is... But, for tenderness, and taste, I think we (KCBS folks) could easily come up with it. Yeah, it took me a while to see the beauty in that check box approach, but the more I read, the more I see, the more sense something simple and effective makes. I think it would take a little prep for someone to present the idea to the BOD. Right now it's too rough. But a little prep and I think it might fly.

[bbq.tom]

Appearance check boxes could include:

- looks dry
- sauce dripping off
- looks black/burnt
- strange color
- looks grainy
- looks greasy
- sauce uneven
- not enough meat to look good

Not saying that these are all good "comments", but it is somewhere to start. IMHO