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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 11-22-2011, 11:59 PM   #31
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I knew something fell on his head!
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Unread 11-23-2011, 08:09 AM   #32
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Neil, the damn bean pot thats been in my family 60 years fell during the filming of Laydown and took out the Flip cam I have used for all these vids. Both are broken.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 08:11 AM   #33
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Neil, the damn bean pot thats been in my family 60 years fell during the filming of Laydown and took out the Flip cam I have used for all these vids. Both are broken.
fark. sorry, dude.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 08:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Ropo View Post
I was recently a newb, and thought I had to smoke at 225. Thank you T for showing not only me, but everyone else the light. I live by hot and fast now. Learned most of my cooking from the youtube vids before they got yanked.
Hot & fast is a good method, but you'll never achieve the beautiful red inside color that way... or as I call it, the "Holy Grail" of BBQ.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 08:46 AM   #35
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The video doesn't quite make a case that I am using salt and pepper only. Heck there's a sprinkle of Lawreys (Tri Layer 1) so thats like 9 things the Popdaddy's Butt Glitter has like 11 things I think and between lemon pepper or montreal seasoning thats quite a few things so it remarkably has a quite complex profile... BUT the whole reason I used to last large grainers is to bring all those things into ...sheesh... I have to use a "Gina Neeley" term -- BALANCE when they get smothered and combined in fat.

You may notice for the final layer of tri level rub there are somepossibilities. Montreal/Salted Lemon Pepper/ and pepper is a good salt balance. When I used koshure salt (due to the bulk I was cooking) I used saltless lemon pepper. My favorite was indeed the Montreal BUT I also found here in my region this cool "Chipolte Large Grained seasoning" for cheap so I have settled on Kosure, Lemon Pepper pepper and this Chipolte stuff from Sams.

Also... use foil or even pan before your out of the stall and you will have some salty brisket. Wrap at all and you will have some peppery brisket. Cook it like I do and its all good an tamed out a bit.

By the way - the poster above is right though... if you start with salt and pepper and one or two of your favorite large grainers (onion and Garlic being the most popular) and maybe a dusting of something finer like chili powder... you got some good (uncrowded) taste.
Donnie,

I've moved away from using garlic with beef: tired of the flavor profile.

You ever get tired of the flavors and improvise? What do you think of ginger as a sub for salt? Maybe not completely... but upping your ginger in order to lower the sodium content?
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Unread 11-23-2011, 08:59 AM   #36
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Wow....

.88 cents a pound????

Geez louise, I wish I could find that quality... let alone that price.

Nice that you're a good, church goin man. Looks like those folk were mighty grateful for your Q.

Nice video, altogether.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 09:11 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcg View Post
Hot & fast is a good method, but you'll never achieve the beautiful red inside color that way... or as I call it, the "Holy Grail" of BBQ.

Thats what I thought too at first... but I decided to let myself off the hook and find a way to shut people like me and you up.

Third Eye and I both used a staged ramp up process. This means that we both know that the "Holy Grail" of redness as you say, while it is NOT supposed to be judged, nevertheless is. And I feel it should be. The solution to the ignorance of (you can't have depth of color/flavor) without total low and slow is ----- the ramp up.

The ring, smoke and all that occurs within a limited time frame (not during the whole process in the house. Third Eye and several of us circumvent this seemingly acedemic "defect" in the Hot and Fast Process by smoking our meats at the 200 or so range for a period then ramping up to over 270 and in my case, coming back down again near the end when the stall is over... which I detect by ear.

Oh Heck... maybe a picture will do:


Smittys BBQ - Hot and Fast... At over 400 degrees - It is REALLY HOT and Really Fast. Holy Grail?



Muellers BBQ in Taylor... On at 4 am Off at 10 am with no ramp up.

Also, the term, "Holy Grail" is a term used to denote something that is hard to access or attain and crucial to a process. In the case of Brisket I would say that "the deep redness" is neither. I have tasted a lot of losers that had a wonderful ring. Heck, you can even BUY chemicals to make this ring... or use Sea Salt to enhance it.... but, redness is easily attained by cooking at 200 for an hour and a half - or accidentally by putting 50 cold briskets into a hot pit. It was decided here by poll that the true "Holy Grail" of BBQ was actually texture and moisture. Great Taste can be bought from Kosmos, Simply Marvelous, Plowboys, heck even Lawrys, or in the case of Lockhart, Mortons and MacCormick (salt and Pepper). But the tue Holy Grail is the Pitmaster's ability to conquer your House temp and turn an essentially garbage chunk of meat (select cuts if your and expert pitmaster) into a delicacy.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 09:38 AM   #38
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I'm not referring to the ring. I'm talking about the inner meat: very difficult to achieve.

Flavor?

Recently had an appt to get my teeth cleaned, and when I sat down, my dentist proposed that he and his friend act as silent investors, and the 3 of us will open our own restaurant. Looking like the restaurant will be a go. I'll set everything up, train the staff, and move on. Our 2nd place will have a bar.

That weekend, I had him stop by my house on Sunday and pick a tray of PP I did Saturday overnight. I did it up right: hit Restaurant Depot, got me 17 lbs of butt, and bought a package of aluminum trays and the tops. Packaged it professionally, and mixed up a container of the sauce Johnny Trigg is currently using, and made a nice label with a picture of Johnny on it. Nice presentation.

The wife had an appointment a week or so later, and she said all he did was rave about my PP. He and the other investor's kids are very picky eaters, they hate most all food (finicky jewish kids), but he told the wife that they were shocked: they devoured my PP and wanted 2nds and 3rds. They apparently killed the whole tray in one sitting.

So I guess I've got the flavor down.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 12:30 PM   #39
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Your Quote READ

"Hot & fast is a good method, but you'll never achieve the beautiful red inside color that way... or as I call it, the "Holy Grail" of BBQ. "

Then you say -

"I'm not referring to the ring. I'm talking about the inner meat: very difficult to achieve."

There are two problems with what you are saying. This is, as far as I know, a thread about brisket. Let me look for a second... yep, brisket.

Would you like to offer advice about boiling an egg? Because your observations about my Hot and Fast Brisket cooking method are about as relevant. YOU are speaking about pork... you say "pork." I won't bring up the fact you are from Maryland - :) and as near as I know you are not "Smoke in the eye" (who actually is from Texas) or that other New Englander that won all those "southern" contests.

This does not mean you do not know how to cook Q, it means your audience is a bit - whats the opposite of skewed?

Now as far as "Pink" through brisket, it can happen WITH A BRINED ONE!!!!!! But as near as I can tell in my 30 plus years of cooking either as a competitor or professional I am unaware of anyone getting pink all the way through and not sure it would be good. Hold it, there was this one time we got drunk at a little "invitational" I was at back in the early 1990's and we pretty much soaked the damn thing in tenderquick and never washed it off just to make a goofy statement.

SO..... what is your "Holy Grail" theory applicable too.... Ribs? I think a rib smoked Pink/red all the way through is anything but hard to attain OR a sought after trait for Q. It smacks of ENHANCED ribs too.



Look... a bevy of samples at the Jack Daniels... no pink all the way through here, albeit they may be low and slow


I am also deeply concerned about this

"...mixed up a container of the sauce Johnny Trigg is currently using, and made a nice label with a picture of Johnny on it. Nice presentation."

Many of us here actually KNOW Johnny, and not in the capacity that we went to his tutorial either. Next thing you know you will be stealing Prince's videos to make a video of your own.

So what COULD you be talking about? Oh yes, you chose to talk about the Holy Grail as it applies to PORK BUTT in a thread about Brisket.

Lets see...

Let's use another good source for education about "red all the way through" flavor



Mryon Mixon's turn in ()arther he would choose from this for his box) for the 2008 Big Pig Jigg. Guess he must have missed the "Holy Grail you speak of.


Take my advice... you will soon find that all small fortunes selling BBQ start with large fortunes. For your audience... you may want to keep overhead low and do this.

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Unread 11-23-2011, 07:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitmaster T View Post
Your Quote READ

"Hot & fast is a good method, but you'll never achieve the beautiful red inside color that way... or as I call it, the "Holy Grail" of BBQ. "

Then you say -

"I'm not referring to the ring. I'm talking about the inner meat: very difficult to achieve."

There are two problems with what you are saying. This is, as far as I know, a thread about brisket. Let me look for a second... yep, brisket.

Would you like to offer advice about boiling an egg? Because your observations about my Hot and Fast Brisket cooking method are about as relevant. YOU are speaking about pork... you say "pork." I won't bring up the fact you are from Maryland - :) and as near as I know you are not "Smoke in the eye" (who actually is from Texas) or that other New Englander that won all those "southern" contests.



This does not mean you do not know how to cook Q, it means your audience is a bit - whats the opposite of skewed?

Now as far as "Pink" through brisket, it can happen WITH A BRINED ONE!!!!!! But as near as I can tell in my 30 plus years of cooking either as a competitor or professional I am unaware of anyone getting pink all the way through and not sure it would be good. Hold it, there was this one time we got drunk at a little "invitational" I was at back in the early 1990's and we pretty much soaked the damn thing in tenderquick and never washed it off just to make a goofy statement.

SO..... what is your "Holy Grail" theory applicable too.... Ribs? I think a rib smoked Pink/red all the way through is anything but hard to attain OR a sought after trait for Q. It smacks of ENHANCED ribs too.



Look... a bevy of samples at the Jack Daniels... no pink all the way through here, albeit they may be low and slow


I am also deeply concerned about this

"...mixed up a container of the sauce Johnny Trigg is currently using, and made a nice label with a picture of Johnny on it. Nice presentation."

Many of us here actually KNOW Johnny, and not in the capacity that we went to his tutorial either. Next thing you know you will be stealing Prince's videos to make a video of your own.

So what COULD you be talking about? Oh yes, you chose to talk about the Holy Grail as it applies to PORK BUTT in a thread about Brisket.

Lets see...

Let's use another good source for education about "red all the way through" flavor



Mryon Mixon's turn in ()arther he would choose from this for his box) for the 2008 Big Pig Jigg. Guess he must have missed the "Holy Grail you speak of.

Take my advice... you will soon find that all small fortunes selling BBQ start with large fortunes. For your audience... you may want to keep overhead low and do this.


Geez, where to start:

1- I live in Maryland... but I was born & raised in Detroit....

a.k.a Motown... also the home of rock & roll. The place where most of the music you enjoy was either made, or inspired by.

Sorry it took me so long, but I wanted to share your ideas about music with a few black musicians I still know from Detroit... (I actually played in the Detroit bars (play guitar, harp, and piano), and got to know quite a few session players and performers).

One of them thinks rather like you do... and was amused, to quote about you: "ahhh...a white boy who probably can't play who thinks he knows something about black music."

Me, I don't feel that way. I don't think it matters if you can actually play, as long as you actually enjoy the music. To me, you don't need to be able to play anymore than you must comp cook to be a good cook.



You mentioned someone from Chicago? Cool. My son's band is going on their first North American tour next week, and will be playing in a number of states, and a number of venues, including Chicago:

http://www.facebook.com/CowabungaMusic

He too feels like you do: I'm out of it because of the stuff I play: Page, Townshend, Hendrix, Beck, Blackmore, Gilmoure, etc...

How can anyone who plays that old stuff know anything about music? Amuses me.

As for cooking and achieving that nice internal red color: I don't see where you're disagreeing with me.

If you think that HnF is the only true method of brisket cooking... well, it's an opinion too.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 10:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
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As for cooking and achieving that nice internal red color: I don't see where you're disagreeing with me.

If you think that HnF is the only true method of brisket cooking... well, it's an opinion too.
Both of these statements then scream "reading comprehension problems."

I never said its the only way but I won't have some guy who doesn't know brisket from pulled pork, much less BBQ conventions, tell me about what can and cannot be achieved. Just because some guy's skills limit the way he can cook meats, doesn't really covert into some cogent observation of what can be attained.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 10:45 PM   #42
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Both of these statements then scream "reading comprehension problems."

I never said its the only way but I won't have some guy who doesn't know brisket from pulled pork, much less BBQ conventions, tell me about what can and cannot be achieved. Just because some guy's skills limit the way he can cook meats, doesn't really covert into some cogent observation of what can be attained.

Oh, boy.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 10:59 PM   #43
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Better bring the popcorn...
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Unread 11-24-2011, 08:34 AM   #44
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"My" reading comprehension????????

Okay, let me spell it out for you.

I tried to subtly tell you something yesterday:

When you went off on your goofy tirade, you insulted at least half of the group here: those above the Mason-Dixon line.

Good BBQ isn't about your street address... it's about dedication to the craft.

We have excellent cooks here from all over the world.

You are one of my favorite cooks here, and I enjoy your sense of humor. I think you'd make a great ambassador for this site, and for BBQ in general, as you're a decent writer, as well. I really enjoyed the piece you had published recently in Galveston (if the reader has not seen or read it, there's a link to it Donnie graciously put up in the Woodpile).

How bout we just can the p!ssin contest, and get back to BBQ?
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Unread 11-24-2011, 09:04 AM   #45
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Hey Donnie - Is that one of them new fangled keg cookers?
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