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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 06-24-2011, 07:21 AM   #1
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Default Wow...I have never seen that before!

What is the most unconventional box set up you have ever turned in, seen, or heard about? Is there anything that hasn’t been done? Do “out of the box” boxes score better than their mundane counterparts or do they suffer the wrath of the judges because they aren’t what they have come to expect? If they win, do they remain consistent or is it winner today bottom of the list next week? Sorry for the rambling nature of this post but this is what happens when I lay in bed at night and am unable to sleep. I think of creative ways I can box my submissions, yes, I am aware I am nuts and need help. I promise, I’ll get some help for my problem…….. tomorrow.
Meanwhile, I’ve got a few ideas I want to try out.
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Unread 06-24-2011, 07:48 AM   #2
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I cant comment from the judges side of KCBS cookoffs, but I have judged quite a few barbecue cookoffs and talked about this very thing with extremely seasoned judges (guys been judging since the 80's).

The problem is that most of the creativity in the arrangement (presentation if you will) it goes beyond what is appetizing to something else. When this is done the appearance scores tend to go all over the place. Meaning, one person will like it and yes give a little for creativity, where the next judge wont find it appetizing at all and get the penalty score. I've seen pork presented cleverly but frankly it conjured up images of different things having nothing to do with food, and certainly not barbecue. If you can keep it from this, then you've done GREAT and it will be rewarded. However, things like piles tend to not do well (from my experience). I hear that Dr BBQ made a pork presentation where he intended it to look like a penis. Apparently it scored well. I would suggest that he landed on a very favorable table, because if it was mine I happen to not find a penis appetizing... Funny, but not appetizing. That appearance might've gotten my 6 or 5...
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Unread 06-24-2011, 08:23 AM   #3
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Ti be clear. Ray's initial layout of his box looked like a penis and nuts. When he filled out the rest of the box, it was not noticeable ...
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Unread 06-24-2011, 08:33 AM   #4
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The other thing that comes into play is the risk of "marking". If you come up with a presentation that is so "off the charts" that it can distinctly become your own, you run the risk of marking.
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Unread 06-24-2011, 09:00 AM   #5
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I've always wondered about that. Where is the line between an individuals creativity and a marked tray and who decides?
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Unread 06-24-2011, 09:20 AM   #6
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I was thinking, let’s say for your chicken box, you grilled a bunch of wingettes, then layed them side by side in the bottom of the box covering the entire bottom of the box instead of parsley, sort of like a garnish, then displaying your thighs on top of the wingettes. Certainly over the top, but effective, I'm not sure. What if you used a bunch of boiled clean chicken bones as a garnish, as long as you prepared them on site over a wood or charcoal fire? Man, I am loosin it.
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Unread 06-24-2011, 09:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watg? View Post
I was thinking, letís say for your chicken box, you grilled a bunch of wingettes, then layed them side by side in the bottom of the box covering the entire bottom of the box instead of parsley, sort of like a garnish, then displaying your thighs on top of the wingettes. Certainly over the top, but effective, I'm not sure. What if you used a bunch of boiled clean chicken bones as a garnish, as long as you prepared them on site over a wood or charcoal fire? Man, I am loosin it.

...I think you need to lay down and rest......

Zilla, Ive thought the same thing in KCBS???
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Unread 06-24-2011, 09:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watg? View Post
I was thinking, letís say for your chicken box, you grilled a bunch of wingettes, then layed them side by side in the bottom of the box covering the entire bottom of the box instead of parsley, sort of like a garnish, then displaying your thighs on top of the wingettes. Certainly over the top, but effective, I'm not sure. What if you used a bunch of boiled clean chicken bones as a garnish, as long as you prepared them on site over a wood or charcoal fire? Man, I am loosin it.
The wingettes would get tasted by the judges, so you'd have to make sure all of them are spot-on otherwise it could impact your overall score. As for the garnish chicken bones, I'm not sure those would get the best tenderness score...
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Unread 06-24-2011, 09:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bover View Post
The wingettes would get tasted by the judges, so you'd have to make sure all of them are spot-on otherwise it could impact your overall score. As for the garnish chicken bones, I'm not sure those would get the best tenderness score...

You know, I have heard two schools of thought on that one, I have heard if it is in the box, it must be sampled. I have also been told, as long as the judge takes a sample of a part of the box, that is sufficient.

Either way. my point is something different, I mean, wingettes or chicken bones in the bottom of the box wouldn't be much different that using chopped pork as a garnish for your pork box is it?
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Unread 06-24-2011, 09:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watg? View Post
You know, I have heard two schools of thought on that one, I have heard if it is in the box, it must be sampled. I have also been told, as long as the judge takes a sample of a part of the box, that is sufficient.

Either way. my point is something different, I mean, wingettes or chicken bones in the bottom of the box wouldn't be much different that using chopped pork as a garnish for your pork box is it?
A lot of CBJ instructors teach that if multiple types are presented, then all must be tasted and judged although I don't believe that is an official rule. Bottom line is though that you will have judges that follow those guidelines, so even if all of them don't you should assume that's how it's being done.
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Unread 06-24-2011, 10:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bover View Post
A lot of CBJ instructors teach that if multiple types are presented, then all must be tasted and judged although I don't believe that is an official rule. Bottom line is though that you will have judges that follow those guidelines, so even if all of them don't you should assume that's how it's being done.

You are correct, of course, it goes without saying, that if I put it in the box, I KNOW it will be worthy of all 999's all the time.
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Unread 06-24-2011, 10:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZILLA View Post
Where is the line between an individuals creativity and a marked tray and who decides?
Publicity. When you get busy telling the world about your unique box and a significant number of judges have heard about it, it's then marked -- they could construe it to be yours.

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Originally Posted by watg? View Post
What if you used a bunch of boiled clean chicken bones as a garnish, as long as you prepared them on site over a wood or charcoal fire?
If it's in the box, it's either green leaf lettuce, parsley or cilantro, or it's meat product to be sampled -- OR it's a foreign object. Now, which do you want -- to have those chicken bones scored for taste and tenderness, or to be declared a foreign object?
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Unread 06-24-2011, 10:18 AM   #13
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When I was an active judge I'd taste a portion of all meat in the box, if available. Sometimes the bark portions were "gone" by the time the box got to me. Several years ago teams were using boneless/skinless breast under the presentation of thighs or what ever. All the judges I was with, over a couple of contest, would taste thigh and the white meat. If the white meat was dry - down went the score. Some teams were trying big 13-15 ounce breasts, taken off the bone, and sliced. Depending on where a particular judge's portion comes from it could be beautifully moist or tough and dry. Consistency is something we all strive for. Don't put anything in the box to just look good - it better taste good, too.
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Unread 06-24-2011, 10:39 AM   #14
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If it's in the box, it's either green leaf lettuce, parsley or cilantro, or it's meat product to be sampled -- OR it's a foreign object. Now, which do you want -- to have those chicken bones scored for taste and tenderness, or to be declared a foreign object?[/QUOTE]




While I agree with you in principle and would not want a bone scored on T & T, what about a bone chard, or a loose knuckle section? Foreign object or to be scored?

I guess in answering my own question a bone chard would not be a foreign object, yet would probably go against the T & T score by its mere presence. But wingettes could be used as a garnish, knowing full well they 'could' be sampled. My original question is, how do you think it would do? has it been done? and could it win consistently? (not necessarily wingettes but anything really different or unusual) and while you are answering those questions, can you tell me if the stock market will go up or down today?
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Unread 06-24-2011, 11:26 AM   #15
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I read or heard some advice similar to: put the box together as you would if you were going to present it at a dinner party with your friends.

I would rather have people say “that looks great; I wanna eat it” than “that’s creative”. Since we’ve taken that approach our appearance scores have gone up. In my opinion charred bones would not fall into the first category…legal or not .
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