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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 05-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #1
Southern Home Boy
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Default Did I cheat?

I have a question: I was at a KCBS comp. last weekend and when we packed up our meat for the trip, I failed to leave enough room in the coolers for the two butts that were being provided by the organizer for the People's Choice category.

When the organizers brought the butts around, I realized I didn't have any space for them. In a slight panic, I asked a neighbor if he had any space in his coolers and could he help me out?

The neighbor, being a Brother himself, didn't hesitate to help me out and the PC butts were safely cooled until I needed to prep them.

After the comp, I thanked said neighbor on the board here.

The organizer (yet another Brother) very kindly and discretely PM'd me to warn me that I should be careful about mentioning using someone else's cooler as that would be a violation of the rules if it was comp meat.

Now, since it was People's Choice, the point is kinda moot, as it doesn't really fall under the KCBS umbrella. However, it brings up the question in my newbie mind: Had this been the competition butts I cooked, would this indeed have been a violation?

The rules state:
"Teams shall not share an assigned cooking space or cooking device."
and
"Once the competition meat has been inspected, it shall not leave the contest site."

The way I read those rules, I did not share a cooking device and the meat did not leave the contest site - unless the meaning of "contest site" means specifically the site designated only for a particular team.

The only thing I could see from those rules I mentioned would be the possible interpretation that because my neighbor allowed me to put my PC butts in his cooler, we "shared" a cooking space.

I'm not trying to pick nits and I certainly am not trying to argue with the organizer who very generously gave me a private and friendly warning/heads up, but I also do not want to cheat or do anything that would be unethical.

Is there a rule I am not seeing or am I misinterpreting either of the two rules I metioned?


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Unread 05-05-2011, 10:44 AM   #2
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It is my understanding of that rule that it would be a violation.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 11:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Draw BBQ View Post
It is my understanding of that rule that it would be a violation.
Help me out. In what way?
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Unread 05-05-2011, 11:16 AM   #4
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Maybe? It seems like I can remember that being addressed by the BoD several years ago, but I'm not certain.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #5
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Contest site is your designated spot only.

The rules apply to the 4 competition meats only. Peoples Choice is an ancillary category. Now if it's stated that the Peoples Choice follows KCBS rules then you did cheat in peoples choice and should have been disqualified for people choice only.

Had I been in your position I would have either borrowed a cooler or I would have declined to participate in peoples choice. Preception not the letter of the law is usually what's discussed and causes problems.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 11:23 AM   #6
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^ ^ ^
I agree with what Ford says.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 11:26 AM   #7
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I would say it depends on the Reps interpretation which is a dangerous game to play.

Not the same situation but I know two teams that joined forces at a contest and ended up qualifying for the Royal Invitational. They were cooking the Royal open separately so they both had their own site. For the Invite one team decided to cook the brisket on their site while the other 3 meats were cooked on the other teams site(doesn't seem like a big deal to me). Well someone brought this to the reps attention and in the morning the rep said if they turned in that brisket it would be DQ'd (huh ?). Well the team started a new brisket and tried to get it done in the time allotted so there was no DQ.

Anyway the morel of the story is the Rep has final say so if I were you I wouldn't leave it in their hands. Next time borrow a cooler or buy one of those disposable ones at a gas station and you won't have to worry.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 11:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Draw BBQ View Post
It is my understanding of that rule that it would be a violation.
Why??? the meat did not leave the contest site and he did not share a cooking device and did not share cooking space. I guess like you said it is how you interpret the rules.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #9
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Reading through the rules, it's easy to see that they were designed to keep teams' processes separate. Regardless of the culture of sharing and helping out that the good people of BBQ have cultivated, the intent with regards to the competition itself is clear.

It's just not the Board's job to think of every possible way that teams might share, and make microrules thereto. The onus is on the cook to read the rules, understand their intent (asking reps for clarification if necessary), and then abide by the rules whether they were stated in microdetail or not.

While "cheating" is intended to gain unfair advantage, I can't see that coolering did anything more than you would have done in your own space. But even for PC, that's wandering in to a gray area, and that's where things get twisted. For a competition meat, you know you would have never considered it.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 12:13 PM   #10
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Was the PC meat inspected by the contest rep or designee as if it was KCBS product? Was the PC meat cooked in the same smoker as your contest meat and did the possibility exist for you switch which product you turned in to the judges? That might make a difference to a rep.

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Unread 05-05-2011, 12:24 PM   #11
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I would think the requirement for food safety would far outweigh the other rules and could be successfully argued and defended. I would have consulted with the rep and stated in order to maintain food safe conditions as required by rule and, more important, the safety of the judges, I would be using a shared cooler space with Joe Blow. At some point common sense is better than micro managed rules. The rules allow for some leeway and are not meant to be all things to all people. They are meant as a guideline and to "Keep Honest People Honest!" imho
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Unread 05-05-2011, 12:44 PM   #12
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My understanding is that the meat, cookers, everything must stay within your designated cooking space. Like Ford and others said, it's a dangerous game to play when you leave it to a rep to decide what they "think" the rules say. With that being said, you are WAY ahead of the game if you are even aware of such an instance. As a contest newbie I screwed up much more glaring rules than this!!!!!
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Unread 05-05-2011, 03:49 PM   #13
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If helping someone out to keep meat below safe temp is cheating, they can call me a cheater anyday if I run out of room or they get food poisoning. Their choice!
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Unread 05-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacked UP BBQ View Post
If helping someone out to keep meat below safe temp is cheating, they can call me a cheater anyday if I run out of room or they get food poisoning. Their choice!
As long as you put $1 bills in the turn in container.............

That reminds me, Roc City is coming up!

Honestly, if helping out a Brother/Friend/Competitor is cheating, then almost all of us are cheaters.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 04:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ugly's BBQ View Post
As long as you put $1 bills in the turn in container.............

That reminds me, Roc City is coming up!

Honestly, if helping out a Brother/Friend/Competitor is cheating, then almost all of us are cheaters.
HMMMMMMMMMMM Depending on the reps I might do it again.
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