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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 05-04-2011, 03:40 AM   #1
Crash
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Default Need advice - non-sanctioned event in Hawaii

Our team has only competed in KCBS and IBCA events. We have relocated to a state that is just getting started in Competition BBQ. We have our 1st non-sanctioned competition coming up in 6 weeks and are trying to figure a few things out.

Here's where we totally want/need the Brethren's thoughts on how you would approach an event like this. I know, it is nothing that most of us are used to, but it is what it is. Keep in mind, Hawaii tends to run a few years behind the trends of the West Coat of the mainland. Basically, Hawaii is in the very early stages of competition BBQ.

Per the printed rules, here's the Cliff Notes version of what we have been told to expect as a competitor.

-Load in is at 6:30am on Sunday, June 19th. Load out is by 6pm on the same day.

-Available categories are: Chicken, Pork, Beef, Fish and Anything Goes.

-All entries may be "smoked on site, or pre-smoked".

-All Turn-ins must be delivered to the judges between 2-2:35pm. This means if you signed up to do all 5 turn-ins, they all need to be at the judges table between 2-2:35p.

-Garnish can be anything, as long as it fits in the box.

-Judging will be done by a 2-3 person judging team per category.

-Points will be awarded on a 1-5 scale and will be weighted heaviest on Taste, then Texture, then Appearance.

-All entries in a particular category will be judged by a panel of judges at the same time.

-Judging will be blind, but will be marked with the team's booth number.

Any advice, thoughts or revelations?
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:27 AM   #2
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Well, the first thing i would do is talk to the organizer about some of those rules :)


-All entries may be "smoked on site, or pre-smoked".

If they won't eliminate the "pre-smoked" allowance I would pass.

-All Turn-ins must be delivered to the judges between 2-2:35pm. This means if you signed up to do all 5 turn-ins, they all need to be at the judges table between 2-2:35p.

This is just plain silly. You should explain to them that this is not an easy thing to do, if possible at all.

-Points will be awarded on a 1-5 scale and will be weighted heaviest on Taste, then Texture, then Appearance.

A 1-5 scale doesn't allow enough variation in scores. i suspect a lot of ties.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:11 PM   #3
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I totally agree with everything you said above Ron. The turn in times and scoring are the most glaring issues for us.

Non-sanctioned doesnt exactly thrill us either, but beggars cant be choosers.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:29 AM   #4
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Anyone else? Seriously, what would you do?

Keep in mind that HI is the last state to get into Competition BBQ.

Basically, this is a stepping stone for our state as we attempt to move up the competition ladder.

Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated.
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:49 AM   #5
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Ron pretty much nailed it. You might print out copies of the KCBS rules (available for download by anyone at kcbs.us) and provide them as background info on contest management to the folks who are organizing this. There will always be disputes and issues with rules but these have been through a lot of testing over the years.

As a dedicated judge I wouldn't judge this contest because of the "pre-smoking" thing. Who knows what that might induce?

Your relative isolation and travel costs to Hawaii are an impediment to our "norm" of mainland contesting but if you could get something sanctioned going and conduct some judging schools I think you'd see some mainland volunteers show up.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:23 AM   #6
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-Load in is at 6:30am on Sunday, June 19th. Load out is by 6pm on the same day.

Wow, that pretty much cuts out pulled pork of any kind, and brisket too. Perhaps ribs on the pork. Beef; grill a steak.


-Available categories are: Chicken, Pork, Beef, Fish and Anything Goes.

Welcome to un-sanctioned comps... Chicken, can the skin be removed if the judge doesnt want to eat skin? No definitions on what Beef or Pork is? Fish, any kind of fish dish? Anything goes; isn't the whole competition an "anything goes" competition <rhetorical>?

Without better definition, to me this is a drop-dead no-go.

-All entries may be "smoked on site, or pre-smoked".

YEOW! Potentially VERY VERY bad.

Drop dead no-go.

-All Turn-ins must be delivered to the judges between 2-2:35pm. This means if you signed up to do all 5 turn-ins, they all need to be at the judges table between 2-2:35p.

Timing; terrible.

Maybe just cook a steak and ribs, IF you're cooking, otherwise no-go.

-Garnish can be anything, as long as it fits in the box.

? Really? I'm thinking line the box with $20's. They make a great garnish.

Too many unreal possibilities and marking possibilities. No go.

-Judging will be done by a 2-3 person judging team per category.

? Get to know them, fast. This is way too few. 4, at a minimum, per table.

Bad idea, but this wouldn't prevent me from entering (like the above would).

-Points will be awarded on a 1-5 scale and will be weighted heaviest on Taste, then Texture, then Appearance.

Agree with too little variance (leaving ties), but that has more to do with too few judges as well. They could do an MIM/MBN thing with a final over-all score where they rank order them on fractional points. Trust me, most every KCBS competition has ties, LOTS and LOTS of them.

It's crappy, by design, but wouldn't prevent me from entering.

-All entries in a particular category will be judged by a panel of judges at the same time.

2 judges, judging all the entries? It surely helps if they rank-order them, but those are going to be some very FULL judges.

Wouldn't prevent me from entering.

-Judging will be blind, but will be marked with the team's booth number.

We all know that this (above) isn't blind.

Drop dead; no-go.



Any advice, thoughts or revelations?


I'd definitely talk to the organizer IF this is something you'd like to do. Honestly, being a barbecue guy, I wouldn't enter it. They haven't defined "beef", nor "pork". If they do (go with brisket, pork butt/shoulder), then you have HUGE cook time issues that to me would still prevent entry. For me, they'd have to address just about all of those issues, IMHO.

Oh, I'm fairly certain I got "homered" last *blind* competition that I participated in where they numbered the boxes the same number as the team/location number. This would have to be fixed as well; homey dont play that any longer.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:23 AM   #7
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Manual scored IBCA Rules are about as simple as it gets
Sounds like the Holtville Rib Championship Where the "winner"
is determined after they know if you will donate the money back
to their admirable cause
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:53 AM   #8
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Really???? Hawaii .. and you’re complaining its not more like KCBS??? Really?
I’ll trade you; you move to Des Moines Iowa and compete in the "dont part your pork" KCBS rules. And I’ll move to Hawaii and compete where you can pre-cook your meat and use any kind of garnish you want.
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I would cook/smoke the beef and pork at home and cambro. (what dcould you have a max of an hour and a half drive? I think it will still be hot.)
Go to the site, set up two small smokers/grills and two tables and smoke the fish and chicken.

Not what we’re all used to but sounds fun to me. Who cares what the rules are as long as its equal for everyone.
I do want to see pictures.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:13 AM   #9
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Crash,

All the obvious issues have been pointed out. I say, just run with it and have fun, which I'm sure you will.

Then politely approach the organizers with either IBCA or KCBS rules as suggestions. You may even find someone who can become a partner in promoting Competition Que in HI.

Treat the your long cooks like the Brisket only comps that Mike use to organize back in AZ( Assuming you want to turn in Brisket and Pork Butt) and cook the other catagories on site.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Not to thread Hijack but my IBCA newsletter lists an event in Hawaii in July, you know anything about that?
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:20 AM   #10
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Sorry but I would wait a few years until they get the kinks out. Then I call up Keale and go cook at his place with a few beers...
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:33 AM   #11
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Beginning competition organizers rarely have a clue.

I was involved as a competitor in a non-sanctioned contest last year. I was also kinda sorta able to listen in on the chatter of the organizers plans. When they suddenly realized that a table of five judges simply could not judge all the samples that 20 teams would produce (for one example) . . . they hired a 'retired' KCBS rep to help them get their act together.

In the end, it was good with the help of the former rep - and they are holding it again this year. But without having a clue, it sounded to me like it was going to be a disaster.

I think the best advice is to go, hang out and cook with friends and don't worry too much about winning or losing. Do your best to comply with 'the rules' but don't get all worked up about it. Relax. Have fun. Isn't that what Hawaii's all about anyway?
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:11 AM   #12
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Thank you all for the excellent input, I sincerely appreciate all of the feedback. We have already signed up and paid for this event, so we'll be cooking it for sure.

The biggest obstacles that we seem to have are the 5 turn in times within a 35 minute window. That, coupled with the very, short cook time, makes this perhaps the most difficult event we have ever done. I'm also struggling to understand the "blind judging" with our team # on the box.

The fact of the matter really is, we miss competing and will be competing at this event regardless of the rules. Hopefully we'll get some time to speak with the organizer and give him some feedback.

Thanks again everyone.

One of our goals when we moved to Hawaii was to bring sanctioned competitions to the islands. It has proven to be a slow process, but there is a strong following out here and there is tremndous potential.
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerJ View Post
.
Not to thread Hijack but my IBCA newsletter lists an event in Hawaii in July, you know anything about that?
Yes Wes, I do know something about that.

The event will be held in Hilo Bay (Big Island of Hawaii) on July 2nd and 3rd, making it a Sunday turn-in event. It is a 4 meat competition and I believe that they are adding an ancillary poke' category....go figure, raw fish at a BBQ comp.

I've talked with the organizer a few times and it sounds like it is a definite go. It has also already been announced on the IBCA website. I dont know anything about prize fund but I do know that last year's GC (it was non-sanctioned) won $500.

I've suggested that the organizer apply for a Governor's Proclamation and push hard for the minimum amount of required teams to make the event a Jack Qualifier. I dont really know that this will get the GP or the needed amount of teams though. Most folks out here have no idea what the Jack is and may not be willing to pay for the cost of travel to get there.

We've put up all of the info we have on the hibarbeque.com website and will update it as we learn more.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:48 AM   #14
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Best of luck! Knock 'em dead!
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:57 AM   #15
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Got any spare cookers over there? That's pretty close to my anniversary and I'm sure I could talk the wife into Hawaii for a cook off.

Beats the cow pastures I've cooked in recently.
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