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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 04-28-2011, 04:49 PM   #1
Bbqin fool
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Default Inject or not to inject?

I've heard alot about injecting butts and brisket but never actually tried it. How do the judges look at this and does it seem to help with flavor, moistness etc?
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Unread 04-28-2011, 05:59 PM   #2
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We always trust our Butcher.

Interesting that you would ask about judges' perceptions on the topic. Here's two instances of judge feedback:

One newly-minted judge was very proud to tell us that they had marked down to a 4 any product that they deemed "had been injected with 'solution' ". Apparently we were not the only team this information was shared with, as the rep was alerted about ninety seconds later and this judge was re-educated.

At another show in a different state, some judges came by our camp Saturday afternoon. While I was processing leftovers from the Cambro, one remarked, "Oh, you don't use Butcher, I can always smell that!" Apparently not.


So, when properly used, the product does enhance moistness -- the flavor is up to you. And judges should evaluate meats as presented, not by their perception of how it might have been prepared.
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Unread 04-28-2011, 06:08 PM   #3
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It helps greatly and we always go with Kosmo's products. We have noticed a huge improvement in our scores and finishes over the last 18 months with Kosmo's suite of products. We use them on every category.

I would venture to say that if you aren't injecting Butts and Briskets, you are leaving plenty of points on the judges table.
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Unread 04-28-2011, 06:21 PM   #4
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^^^ what they said. They do help with moisture, but aren't required. They do impart additional/different flavors, but this too surely isn't required. We do (inject both) and are very happy with the results, both judged and at home.
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Unread 04-28-2011, 06:41 PM   #5
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Thank you for the feedback! I'm looking forward to trying injections and I will most definitely post my experiences and results!
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Unread 04-28-2011, 07:07 PM   #6
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For what it's worth, we like and use both butchers and kosmos'. Some recommend mixing them with other things like beef broths, etc. I suggest starting with them straight out of their directions, with water, and let them set up overnight. That's for beef. For pork something as simple as apple juice, perhaps a little worchestershire, and a little of your rub seems to work very good.
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Unread 04-28-2011, 08:15 PM   #7
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Lake Dogs is right, use what you like and you will get comfortable with. The end result is you need to still cook it right. Any product on the market can't fix a bad cook.
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Unread 04-28-2011, 08:16 PM   #8
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FAB... good enough for a Yankee to win pork in pork country....
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Unread 04-28-2011, 08:17 PM   #9
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I have read on another forum (not going to say but he is a moderator) The topic was MSG
"As a judge I've been feed it a time or twenty, I'm not particularly sensitive to it, but I've had a head ache after chicken turn in's a time or two, and I know it's down to the MSG in the rubs, the worse one in my book is the phosphate overload that some folks put in their pork and brisket, it may improve the taste of some of the sh1t we eat on the day, but it wrecks my guts for the next 2 days.

Due to the phosphate tingle, I'll knock points of entries if I can taste it, there are some naturally occurring phosphates in meat so you do have to be careful.

One judge's opinion.....
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Unread 04-28-2011, 08:18 PM   #10
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fwiw....I also inject briskets and butts....have used the main three (butchers, fab, kosmo's).....some more than others and have not noticed a difference between the three, they all work well in the aspect of moisture enhancement.
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Unread 04-29-2011, 07:17 AM   #11
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In cooking, I use injections (I use Butchers but 1/2 strength) primarily for moisture and secondarily for any flavor contribution. As a judge I can usually (but not always) tell if an entry has been injected. An injection is not a requirement, of course, but properly done can significantly help texture by managing moistness.

If you choose to inject (some cooking methods don't need it or don't need as much) be aware of the results you get on both flavor and texture. If the injection overpowers the flavor of the meat, it isn't doing its job.
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Unread 04-29-2011, 08:04 AM   #12
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Great insight everyone! Thank you so much for your input. I'm really looking forward to trying different injections. Thanks again!
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Unread 05-04-2011, 12:05 AM   #13
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I have been working with a food scientist developing a product similar to those mentioned and I can tell you that if you "have a problem" with MSG, you probably should NOT be judging a BBQ Contest!!
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Unread 05-04-2011, 08:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyduk View Post
I have read on another forum (not going to say but he is a moderator) The topic was MSG
"As a judge I've been feed it a time or twenty, I'm not particularly sensitive to it, but I've had a head ache after chicken turn in's a time or two, and I know it's down to the MSG in the rubs, the worse one in my book is the phosphate overload that some folks put in their pork and brisket, it may improve the taste of some of the sh1t we eat on the day, but it wrecks my guts for the next 2 days.

Due to the phosphate tingle, I'll knock points of entries if I can taste it, there are some naturally occurring phosphates in meat so you do have to be careful.

One judge's opinion.....
You should not be judging if you have food reactions, especially if you react to MSG and phospates. Hyperphosphatemia is very serious.

Quote:
Hyperphosphatemia (high blood phosphate) also has various causes. It is mostoften caused by a decline in the normal excretion of phosphate in urine as aresult of kidney failure or impaired function. Hypoparathyroidism, a condition in which the parathyroid gland does not produce enough PTH, or pseudoparathyroidism, a condition in which the kidneys lose their ability to respond to PTH, can also contribute to decreased phosphate excretion. Hyperphosphatemia can also result from the overuse of laxatives or enemas that contain phosphate. Hypocalcemia (abnormally low blood calcium) can cause phosphate blood levels to increase abnormally. A side-effect of hyperphosphatemia is the formationof calcium-phosphate crystals in the blood and soft tissue.

Hyperphosphatemia is generally asymptomatic; however, it can occur in conjunction with hypocalcemia, the symptoms of which are numbness and tingling in the extemities, muscle cramps and spasms, depression, memory loss, and convulsions. When calcium-phosphate crystals build up in the blood vessels, they can cause arteriosclerosis, which can lead to heart attacks or strokes. When thecrystals build up in the skin, they can cause severe itching.
You certainly should not mark an entry down for an ingredient that you have a reaction to. Actually phosphates have no taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyduk View Post
I'll knock points of entries if I can taste it
Quote:
Phosphate salts act as leavening agents that "fluff up" foods we like to eat, such as cakes, biscuits, breads and pancakes. Unlike yeast recipes, such as sourdough, phosphates have no taste and can be used for a wide variety of baking products, such as prepared doughs, pizzas and cake mixes. Phosphates react with sodium bicarbonate to release carbon dioxide, providing the leavening for a wide array of products we see on our store shelves today.
I find your posts a little contradictory because in one post you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyduk View Post
Due to the phosphate tingle, I'll knock points of entries if I can taste it, there are some naturally occurring phosphates in meat so you do have to be careful.
But in your next post you claim....

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyduk View Post
I also inject briskets and butts....have used the main three (butchers, fab, kosmo's).....some more than others and have not noticed a difference between the three, they all work well in the aspect of moisture enhancement.
The reason these injections help retain moisture is because of the phospates they contain.
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Unread 05-04-2011, 09:19 AM   #15
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Guy, I think the closing quotation mark was lost in Luckyduk's first post. I am pretty sure that the line that you quoted above was still part of the quote from the other forum, not Luckyduk's own words.
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