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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 04-18-2011, 03:24 PM   #16
River City Smokehouse
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You're cooking for the judges. They will kill you almost every time with wings. Next time cook the wings for yourself and turn the thighs in to the judges. You'll not regret it.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 04:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Breathe BBQ View Post
Heard that one judge commented in regards to wings that were turned in "this team must be new b/c they turned in wings". IMO chicken should be judged on taste, texture and presentation without bias because it's not a thigh.
You are correct sir, at least within the KCBS. Someone shorted you based on personal bias. If I ever get that way I'll turn in my badge.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 05:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammoore View Post
They may be awesome wings.....but it's hard to stack up against a thigh in the judges eyes. But if you figure it out, let me know. I'll jump on the anti-thigh campaign bandwagon.
I'm sorry, did you stack up against a thigh. Darn, I could have sworn the KCBS judging rules specifically state that you aren't to judge a piece of meat against anything else, just on the entry itself. I must be crazy .

I can't actually disagree, it just drives me nuts. Judges who are SUPPOSED to know that they should just be judging that entry compare it to another entry. We can't stop it and yet it's completely wrong.

For the record, we've been turning in wings and we are hit and miss with them. As to the comments that you can't get bite through skin on a wing, you're wrong. We get it everytime no problem, you're just not using the right method for that piece of meat.

It was great to meet you this weekend!
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Unread 04-18-2011, 05:30 PM   #19
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Apparently this is a legitimate problem. I may try to put together a letter to KCBS addressing the issue of bias, and hit all of the major forums to get as many people as I can to attach their name to it.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 05:42 PM   #20
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Yep. A judge is to completely forget everything they saw or tasted before they bite into the next sample. Each one is unique and not to be compared to another. Easier on paper than in practice? Not if you remind yourself as often as necessary, I'd think.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 06:16 PM   #21
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I learned my lesson by turning in skinless thighs. I got a call, then none same process too. You should go with skin on thighs, if you want consistent results.

YMMV!
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Unread 04-18-2011, 10:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-Dat View Post
Apparently this is a legitimate problem. I may try to put together a letter to KCBS addressing the issue of bias, and hit all of the major forums to get as many people as I can to attach their name to it.
it might be more successful to remove the possibility of bias.

have the chicken category include only thighs.

especially when you hear of comments made by a judge sweet breathe referenced. how could you prevent that predisposition?
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Unread 04-18-2011, 10:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River City Smokehouse View Post
You're cooking for the judges. They will kill you almost every time with wings. Next time cook the wings for yourself and turn the thighs in to the judges. You'll not regret it.
That's funny you say that because Rich asked Tommy, our late nephew, at the American Royal, if the wings he had on the weber was his entry. He said, "No, this is our lunch." And Rich said, "No, that is your entry!" He took 7th place at the Royal!
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Unread 04-18-2011, 10:58 PM   #24
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That's funny you say that because Rich asked Tommy, our late nephew, at the American Royal, if the wings he had on the weber was his entry. He said, "No, this is our lunch." And Rich said, "No, that is your entry!" He took 7th place at the Royal!
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Unread 04-19-2011, 07:37 AM   #25
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If you're serious about competition cooking, ditch the wings. There is a very good reason why thighs are the most popular: Easy to cook to proper taste/texture and get good skin.

If you're just competing for fun, keep trying. As a judge I don't care what chunk of bird you do and would judge any piece fairly. But as a cook I can't recommend wings (too inconsistent)
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Unread 04-19-2011, 09:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthole View Post
I'm sorry, did you stack up against a thigh. Darn, I could have sworn the KCBS judging rules specifically state that you aren't to judge a piece of meat against anything else, just on the entry itself. I must be crazy .

I can't actually disagree, it just drives me nuts. Judges who are SUPPOSED to know that they should just be judging that entry compare it to another entry. We can't stop it and yet it's completely wrong.

For the record, we've been turning in wings and we are hit and miss with them. As to the comments that you can't get bite through skin on a wing, you're wrong. We get it everytime no problem, you're just not using the right method for that piece of meat.

It was great to meet you this weekend!
I hear ya....we all know how it is supposed to work and I do believe that most judges are doing it right. Unfortunately even if three of your 5 judges (judges that count) are doing it right, you're still screwed.

I did the wing thing....and I was hit and miss also. More miss than hit in my case. I've entered three wing contests and 7th has been my lowest finish. Wings as my chicken entry in a KCBS contest, I'm ashamed to even admit how low I can score. Just leaves you scratching your head.
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Unread 04-19-2011, 10:29 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammoore View Post
I hear ya....we all know how it is supposed to work and I do believe that most judges are doing it right. Unfortunately even if three of your 5 judges (judges that count) are doing it right, you're still screwed.

I did the wing thing....and I was hit and miss also. More miss than hit in my case. I've entered three wing contests and 7th has been my lowest finish. Wings as my chicken entry in a KCBS contest, I'm ashamed to even admit how low I can score. Just leaves you scratching your head.
Well, I over-stated the bite-through skin. You're right, and some of it can be *ok*. What if you get 5 or 6 judges who really dont care for skin; bite through or not? Think of it this way: A thigh has what, 5 to 1 meat to skin ratio, if not more? Wing has what: perhaps a 1 to 2 meat to skin ratio, or worse. Remember, it's a meat contest, not a skin contest. I'm one judge who happens to really hate skin. It's *ok* to me on a thigh if really REALLY thin and bite through, it's hardly noticed. But on a wing; its going to be extremely tough to mimic fried (and that was what I was trying to say earlier).

However, dont think there's a preference to thighs. It's not. Just most judges prefer to be judging meat; the more meat (vs. skin) the better, to a degree. The reason thighs tend to score better than breasts is because of tenderness, and to some degree taste because a breast can get bland and dry easily.

If you want to be judged consistently well, go with thighs. Hub is dead on!
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Unread 04-19-2011, 10:56 AM   #28
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^^^^

put that way, i can live with it pretty easy.

i suppose the amount of skin is what makes the wing taste better in my mind, but you're right, it is a meat contest.
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Unread 04-19-2011, 11:30 AM   #29
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It may be thick headed and perhaps over time I will change my opinion (especially if scores remain consistently middle of the road, though my higher scorers are still outweighing my lowerscores) but at this point I still respectfully disagree.

I look at it as an overall experience, that combination of the skin, meat, rub, sauce, injection, whatever it is that comprises that one bite. If it was just a meat competition then why bother with presentation. Or getting the flavor profile correct, for that matter. We all know its a sauce competition. LOL

All I ask is to be judged without bias, as if the judges were blindfolded and didn't have any idea as to what piece of the bird they were eating. I do think it may make a difference. After that if my chicken sucks then I deserve DAL.
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Unread 04-19-2011, 11:43 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Breathe BBQ View Post
It may be thick headed and perhaps over time I will change my opinion (especially if scores remain consistently middle of the road, though my higher scorers are still outweighing my lowerscores) but at this point I still respectfully disagree.

I look at it as an overall experience, that combination of the skin, meat, rub, sauce, injection, whatever it is that comprises that one bite. If it was just a meat competition then why bother with presentation. Or getting the flavor profile correct, for that matter. We all know its a sauce competition. LOL

All I ask is to be judged without bias, as if the judges were blindfolded and didn't have any idea as to what piece of the bird they were eating. I do think it may make a difference. After that if my chicken sucks then I deserve DAL.
agreed, but thats to US. to the JUDGES the overall experience is better with a thigh.

at least that is what i have gleaned from this thread.
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