Icbs?

[Smokin' Hicks]

can anyone tell me the rules and what ICBS stands for? any info would do, i heard they have a good rule set

[Rookie'48]

IBCS is International BBQ Cook's Society (I think) - don't know about Icbs, though .

[Q-Dat]

So wait. There is an IBCS(International Barbecue Cooks Society) and an IBCA(International Barbecue Cookers Association)?

[gmholler]

Per Google, I found these definitions for IBCS:

International Committee of the Blue Shield
Incorporated Church Building Society
International Conference of Banking Supervisors
Imperial College of Business Studies in Punjab, India
It Can Be Shown (from mathematics)
Institute of Cognitive and Brain Sciences at the University of California, Berkley
International Cigar Band Society
Inter-Connected Business System

I've never heard of IBCS in conjunction with BBQ. Maybe you mean IBCA (International Barbecue Cookers Association)? You can find info on them at

http://www.ibcabbq.org

Lynn H.

[Smokin' Hicks]

the reason i ask is, i have heard they tell you exactly how much meat of each category to put in the box and exactly how they want it laid in the box....absolutely no garnish!!
i love the no garnish part, think you should be judged on the meat and not what else is in the box to compliment the meat....the only thing i dont like about them is they are not so big on having 100% CBJ judges they said that is not one of their high priorities...if that is the case then forget about them

[thillin]

Sounds like you're talking about IBCA. It's the same. If you don't like the judging, don't cook. Just because someone paid to be a certified judge doesn't make them any better to judge BBQ. I'm sure there are alot of good CBJs, and sure there are some bad ones. But people can still judge BBQ well without a certification. I choose by location and payout. When I'm consistant, I place no matter who's judging.

[Smokin' Hicks]

you know i have heard alot more people agree with me on this than disagree...you are 100% WRONG....if you pay all the money to go cook in these comps the least the organizer could do is have all CBJ judges.....its not about them tasting and giving their "opinion" on your food its about having a certified judge there and that judge knowing the flavor profile, texture profile, and appearance profile....its the only way you can get consistently better at cooking, having that specific flavor profile to aim for...if the judges are not certified then the have absolutely no guide lines to go by except yeah that tastes good or yeah that looks nice....so i couldn't disagree with you more... and yeah you are right i am not that stupid to get into a comp with out at least 90% CBJ so dont worry about it i won't cook any comps that don't have at least that

[RangerJ]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Hicks

you know i have heard alot more people agree with me on this than disagree...you are 100% WRONG....if you pay all the money to go cook in these comps the least the organizer could do is have all CBJ judges.....its not about them tasting and giving their "opinion" on your food its about having a certified judge there and that judge knowing the flavor profile, texture profile, and appearance profile....its the only way you can get consistently better at cooking, having that specific flavor profile to aim for...if the judges are not certified then the have absolutely no guide lines to go by except yeah that tastes good or yeah that looks nice....so i couldn't disagree with you more... and yeah you are right i am not that stupid to get into a comp with out at least 90% CBJ so dont worry about it i won't cook any comps that don't have at least that

I've walked in both, I've been shut out in both. The really good teams around here, typically walk no matter what the association or the "qualifications" of the judges.

At the end of the day, good Que is good Que. And flavor profiles..well they are quite different, so I'm not sure how you can shoot for a specific profile as that IS subjective to the taster.

What I will agree with is, its harder to improve with no real feedback and KCBS and some others provide that, IBCA really does not.

Good luck to you.

[gmholler]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Hicks

you know i have heard alot more people agree with me on this than disagree...you are 100% WRONG....if you pay all the money to go cook in these comps the least the organizer could do is have all CBJ judges.....its not about them tasting and giving their "opinion" on your food its about having a certified judge there and that judge knowing the flavor profile, texture profile, and appearance profile....its the only way you can get consistently better at cooking, having that specific flavor profile to aim for...if the judges are not certified then the have absolutely no guide lines to go by except yeah that tastes good or yeah that looks nice....so i couldn't disagree with you more... and yeah you are right i am not that stupid to get into a comp with out at least 90% CBJ so dont worry about it i won't cook any comps that don't have at least that

Actually, this brings up something I've wondered about. How is it that having a high CBJ % gives cooks a "warm fuzzy" about a contest? To be a CBJ, all you need do is pay your money & stay conscious for the duration of the class. At the judges' meeting at any contest, you'll find that they're required to go over the standards and guidelines for KCBS judging, so if there's anything you don't remember from the class, chances are it'll be covered in that meeting. So how does that make a CBJ so coveted? I've seen CBJs that are really dedicated and feel they are there to serve the cooks, while I've also seen those that just want to fill their cooler with meat. About the only thing I've seen that ties all of them together is a love of BBQ - be it for the sport/activity or just eating it. But I don't understand why it's said to be such a good thing for a CBJ % to be high - I mean, it's nice and all, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee anything - or does it?

Lynn H.

[Rich Parker]

Good bbq is good bbq and will always win regardless of the percentage of cbj's.

[Jorge]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Hicks

you know i have heard alot more people agree with me on this than disagree...you are 100% WRONG....if you pay all the money to go cook in these comps the least the organizer could do is have all CBJ judges.....its not about them tasting and giving their "opinion" on your food its about having a certified judge there and that judge knowing the flavor profile, texture profile, and appearance profile....its the only way you can get consistently better at cooking, having that specific flavor profile to aim for...if the judges are not certified then the have absolutely no guide lines to go by except yeah that tastes good or yeah that looks nice....so i couldn't disagree with you more... and yeah you are right i am not that stupid to get into a comp with out at least 90% CBJ so dont worry about it i won't cook any comps that don't have at least that

Pretty bold statement, considering you've never done one of the events.

I generally use Ronnie and Michelle Wade as an example when this topic comes up. They can win anywhere, and it's not because of the judges. They are both great cooks, and turn in a consistently good product.

I'm more concerned about your apparent belief that a CBJ should have a particular flavor profile in mind when they sit down to judge. Are you a CBJ?

[MoKanMeathead]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Hicks

you know i have heard alot more people agree with me on this than disagree...you are 100% WRONG....if you pay all the money to go cook in these comps the least the organizer could do is have all CBJ judges.....its not about them tasting and giving their "opinion" on your food its about having a certified judge there and that judge knowing the flavor profile, texture profile, and appearance profile....its the only way you can get consistently better at cooking, having that specific flavor profile to aim for...if the judges are not certified then the have absolutely no guide lines to go by except yeah that tastes good or yeah that looks nice....so i couldn't disagree with you more... and yeah you are right i am not that stupid to get into a comp with out at least 90% CBJ so dont worry about it i won't cook any comps that don't have at least that

Not to "pile on" here but I was also wondering about what flavor profile you think a CBJ learns in training? I agree that KCBS can teach what the KCBS thinks is appropriate appearance and tenderness but I don't think they can teach flavor. The KCBS teches that a rib should pull cleanly from the bone, most of the non-CBJ public thinks it should fall from the bone...who's right? I guess that depends on who you are cooking for.

I have cooked IBCA contests and I like the way they judge - I don't like the lack of feedback you get but I like the judging. They don't have so-called CBJs there with their magnifying glasses trying to make sure every bodies BBQ looks the same and lays on their finger just so or pulls apart nicely - they have judges that will give you a good score if they like your product and a bad score of they don't...nothing wrong with that!

I think there are some things the KCBS could learn from the IBCA and some the IBCA could learn from the KCBS.

[Jorge]

Originally Posted by MoKanMeathead

Not to "pile on" here but I was also wondering about what flavor profile you think a CBJ learns in training? I agree that KCBS can teach what the KCBS thinks is appropriate appearance and tenderness but I don't think they can teach flavor. The KCBS teches that a rib should pull cleanly from the bone, most of the non-CBJ public thinks it should fall from the bone...who's right? I guess that depends on who you are cooking for.

I have cooked IBCA contests and I like the way they judge - I don't like the lack of feedback you get but I like the judging. They don't have so-called CBJs there with their magnifying glasses trying to make sure every bodies BBQ looks the same and lays on their finger just so or pulls apart nicely - they have judges that will give you a good score if they like your product and a bad score of they don't...nothing wrong with that!

I think there are some things the KCBS could learn from the IBCA and some the IBCA could learn from the KCBS.

One of the many reasons you will always be..."The Thinker" Great seeing you this weekend!

[hcj3rd]

I agree that good BBQ wins out most of the time. I cook IBCA and TGCBCA about 10 times a year. It is amazing to me how consistent the top cooking teams hit . You brought up the Wades then you also have the Canterberry's, Razzberry's and Craig Sharry. They are consistently getting a call. So you don't have to have certified judges at a cookoff to pick out good BBQ.

[Bigmista]

I thought KCBS was the only organization that certifies judges. As far as I know there is no such thing as an IBCA certified judges.

Also there is no "flavor profile" taught to certified judges. You could theoretically turn in the same plate of ribs to two different tables and get 9's on one table and 7's on the next. If fact, all of the food tested in judging classes is generally from the same cook.

I've done back to back contests on the same weekend and have seen a team finish in the bottom quarter one day and finish second the next day with the same turn in. The table you land on is more important than the organization you cook for.