Chicken salad legal at KCBS comps

[SaucyWench]

Originally Posted by BurntFinger_Jason

Pulled chicken with a thick layer of "traditional" BBQ sauce is legal, so why would pulled chicken with a mayo based bbq sauce be any different?

If that's what the board means by chicken salad, fine, no issues.

Where the heck is Merl when we need him?

[Dale P]

You are right Jason but as a cook I wouldnt turn in pulled chicken either. That is a sign that the skin wasnt edible. I know I know judge the meat, but going against great melt in your mouth bite through skin, the pulled will lose everytime. Crispy loses too. We are talking BBQ Chicken folks not anythingchicken.

I like pecans and pineapple in our chicken salad which by the way is awesome.

Porkbutt is in Oldham County over by Spare Lane.

[tonto1117]

Originally Posted by willkat98

If you read further into that ruling, I thought I saw that acceptable garnish will be Chicken in a Biscuit crackers.

Or how about 6 or more hard boiled smoked eggs(de-shelled of course) with some BBQ sauce on them.......bonless, skinless chicken.

[Bbq Bubba]

Originally Posted by tonto1117

Or how about 6 or more hard boiled smoked eggs(de-shelled of course) with some BBQ sauce on them.......bonless, skinless chicken.

Just needs some parsley!

[BBQchef33]

I dont get it..

where is there an issue here???

Pulled chicken, diced chicken, chopped chicken is legal, boned or deboned, white, dark, wings, thighs.. its ALL legal. It always was.

what a cook chooses to sauce it with is the cooks prerogative. As long as its within the rules of sauces. The dice/chopped/fruit/veggie argument is always present, with ALL sauces.. Nothing new there either.

Dreamland BBQ is a mustard based sauce that goes GREAT on chicken.. Pulled or chopped chicken with that on it is outstanding, but I would not turn it in at a contest. Not becase its bad, but i just dont think its what would do well. Same would hold true with mayo. But if a cook is confident enough in his creations.. Why not? Its his entry and his risk(if thats a risk).

Chris lilly(Big Bob Gibson) has the white sauce.. TELL ME, OR HIM, THATS NOT BBQ. Go to this link and look at the chicken recipe.

http://www.bigbobgibsons.com/images/recipes.swf

chit, pulled chicken with homestyle gravy from a jar IS LEGAL... its within the rules.

so if a chef want to chop up some smoked thighs add mayo and turn it in in little piles in the box.. so be it.. its his entry.

Heres another question though.. if I did decide to turn in chopped chicken and mayo, does it have to be 6 individual and 6 identifiable portions, or can it be a pile like pulled pork?

[BBQchef33]

Originally Posted by Dale P

You are right Jason but as a cook I wouldnt turn in pulled chicken either. That is a sign that the skin wasnt edible. I know I know judge the meat, but going against great melt in your mouth bite through skin, the pulled will lose everytime. Crispy loses too. We are talking BBQ Chicken folks not anythingchicken.

I like pecans and pineapple in our chicken salad which by the way is awesome.

Porkbutt is in Oldham County over by Spare Lane.

I humbly disagree..

Assuming that pulled chicken (or brisket fo r that matter) is turned in to cover up a mistake is a disservice to the cook. If you get a box of burnt ends will u score it down because theres no slices or score down if someone turned in slices of the point? Are we assuming the flat was inedible? Maybe the cook just decided the point was the better tasting..

technically, (human nature aside), we're not 'going against' other entries when we turn in our entries.. If i turn in pulled chicken, I expect it not to be judged AGAINST ANYTHING, but to be judged standing alone, on its own merit.

[SaucyWench]

First of all, I still want to know, what is KCBS' definition of chicken salad in this case.

Second, as a judge, I will tell you, if you turn in chopped bbq chicken with gravy on it as your sauce, your scores will be lower, because we are supposed to be judging the meat. Can we see the meat if it's under gravy?

As far as 6 piles of chopped/shredded chicken vs one big pile? Whatever looks right to you, that's your presentation. But most contests, we would have to pick it up with our fingers to get it onto our plates, we don't have serving utensils. Guess also gives a clue as to why you don't want to go "outside the box."

[Dale P]

At the BBQ judging class I took this year the chopped brisket was the best thing I had. So I am wrong. I can admit that my post about bite thru winning everytime is off base. I guess since chicken is our #1 meat I cant see us changing over to the salad/pulled side. But before we learned how to achieve bite thru skin I could have been swayed.

Chicken with gravy is good but you cannot convince me that is BBQ. Legal i guess but BBQ? Chicken ala king?

[SaucyWench]

Originally Posted by trp1fox

BFF or Unforgiven?

That's all I'm saying. From here on out I'm just going to watch.

No, just if you are going to compete or judge, you play by the rules you were given. If you don't like those rules, you take your box & go play somewhere else.

Sometimes for us judges, it feels like cooks should just create competitions where you judge each other, because we evidently are too [whatever] to know what good bbq is.

[BBQchef33]

Originally Posted by SaucyWench

Second, as a judge, I will tell you, if you turn in chopped bbq chicken with gravy on it as your sauce, your scores will be lower, because we are supposed to be judging the meat. Can we see the meat if it's under gravy?

Well, as a judge and a cook, if I screw up and turn in chopped chicken with too much BBQ SAUCE, I face the same risk. I'm not talking about burying the meat under gravy. Pooling, or swimming in anything is going to lower scores whether it be homestyle or headcountry. But that was not my point.

The point is, if someone wants to turn in ANY sauce(mayo based for the purpose of this thread) that is within the rules, they can, and I dont see this this as anything different. I think the board addressed and ruled on a question or situation presented.

if i were judging, and i get pulled or chopped chicken with white sauce, I would judge it on its own merit, without prejudice or assumptions. That is what judges are taught. To judge on its own merit. To not compare entries. To not enter with preconceived notions. Did the chef achieve what he set out to do?. Are the flavors balanced? Are the entries well prepared? In some cases like this one, should I maybe even reward the chef for innovation if he did a good job in balance and or complexity of the flavor profiles?

if i were cooking in the event, i would hope EVERYONE turns in mayo based sauce.. my entry would be the sweet and tangy one thats on the darker side.

[BBQchef33]

Originally Posted by Dale P

Chicken with gravy is good but you cannot convince me that is BBQ. Legal i guess but BBQ? Chicken ala king?

your right... not BBQ.

I was just using it as an example and alternative mindset to the white sauce or mayo based sauces. I wouldn't do it, but unless the rules change, I cant complain if someone else wants to.

i would love to turn dreamland in on pulled/chopped chicken.. just don't have the cajones to do it.

[SaucyWench]

Originally Posted by BBQchef33

Did the chef achieve what he set out to do?. Should I maybe even reward the chef for innovation if he did a good job in balance and or complexity of the flavor profiles.

Sorry, as I said before, KCBS doesn't do recipe contests. We are trained to judge the meat, and told very succinctly that our own palates are not to be used in judging. We are supposed to judge by KCBS standards on how the meat is cooked, taste & tenderness, without regard to sauces or rubs. This can be almost impossible at times, but a good judge will taste the outside seasonings and sauces, and then get to the "meat of the matter" and see if the meat is done per KCBS standards.

[Dale P]

When the skin on our chicken turns out rubbery we will try the pulled. That to me is a brilliant idea! We have had issues with that before we learned the tricks and didnt pull, I wish we would have. I will store a bottle of dreamland in the trailer and let you know how it does if we fail BBQing the chicken. :)

[The_Kapn]

Originally Posted by Rub

This is all part of the big picture, which is bbq evolution. Just because a team decides to push the envelope and try something stupid doesn't mean it will score well. There is no way a judge acting under the guise of a CBJ would score a chicken salad entry higher than an average genuine bbq chicken entry (and don't ask the question about what is average genuine bbq chicken, this ain't a courtroom). The salad entry will tank, and the idea will fall by the wayside and be nothing more than a memory before you know it. The LAST thing any bbq contest needs IMO is more and more rules. Let the bad ideas fail on their own, and the good ones succeed.

Rub just saved me a lot of typing.

Here are my thoughts which will probably piss off everyone.
I really think folks get wound up over nothing.

We see threads all over the Internet bitchin' because thighs are perceived as winning all the time.
Folks will tell you that white meat dries out to quick and will not win.
Folks will tell you that wings have little chance of winning.

Judges (and I are one ) bitch because all they get are thighs.

So, some team has asked for a clarification about chicken salad--so what?????
If they want to try that, they have my full support and I wish EVERY team I compete against tried it.

How many of you have entered (or had the chance to judge) Cornish or Kosher chicken?
Both are legal for KCBS.

7. The Four KCBS Meat Categories:

CHICKEN: Chicken includes Cornish Game Hen and

Kosher Chicken.

We tried Cornish leg quarters one time. They looked fine for presentation and had great (or at least goiod) flavor and texture.
We were rewarded with our only DAL ever in 5 years.

As the rules are written, you can turn in livers, gizzards, and eggs and be legal.
Do you consider them a threat?

So, I have to wonder what is the "threat" or "problem" if someone turns in BBQ chicken which is made into a chicken salad as described?
Does anyone really beleive it will score well?
If not, why FUSS about it!
And all that stuff about "tradition"--it has been beat to death before.

Judges and cooks are looking to cook and judge great BBQ in what ever form it takes or evolves into.

I used to write, approve, and enforce flying regulations where the stakes were a hell of a lot higher than BBQ.
I learned quickly to "Keep it Simple" and the chit will all work out just fine!

JMHO

TIM

[Dale P]

I hope that I am not coming off as POed because Im not upset at all. Just debating and having a few laughs in between. And no I am not worried about chicken & dumplings winning over my bbqed cocks cones.