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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 09-08-2019, 12:31 AM   #196
GrillBillie_D
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Originally Posted by LongTong View Post
California GrillBillie complaining about judging when past competition results were far less than spectacular. I can understand the frustration of not placing very high but to say judges are not professional is a slap to the face of the many judges who take their job very seriously. I wouldn't even consider cooking a contest without taking a judging class and judging several contests to see what is going on. So, slapping back:

Let's have a look at this summer's KCBS contest past results:

June 22, 2019 Silicon Valley BBQ Championship
34 out of 46

August 17th, 2019 Lassen BBQ
15 out of 25

Averaging in the 67th percentile...
Slow down my friend......this year I have been out there to vend food and make money and I did at both. Ask people what I did in Santa Clara...I started all of my comp trimming/prep at 5AM on Saturday....with a Cash & Carry brisket. I have SRF golds in my freezer but I left them at home. I sacrificed the competition to sell food to the public....and I'll do it again. Did you forget my 8th place outta 34 in North Bend? That is top 25 percentile but I guess that doesn't fit in with your argument. I think I made the most money at that event vending while not trying very hard on the comp side. Before this year, I have roughly 30 KCBS events under my belt with 3 RGCs, 6 top fives and 16 top 10 finishes. I'm okay with that. I am a judge (since 2013) and have judged in this area. I'm not saying judges don't put in their best effort and I don't have anything bad to say about most judges. They are just not professional judges. You have no standards to be held accountable to. You can give any entry any score you want and there is nothing anybody can do about it. Sure, you may get asked about it but you can't change the score. My very first KCBS contest was a Sams Club event. In ribs, there was one judge who thought the meat was not cooked all the way. They told the Reps they would not take a bite of it. It was 6 bones from one single rack of ribs. They could not force them to even take a bite of it and they ended up giving it 2s for taste and tenderness. You see my point! It that typical? No but it happens. You call that professional judging?

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Old 09-08-2019, 01:13 AM   #197
LongTong
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Slow down my friend......this year I have been out there to vend food and make money and I did at both. Ask people what I did in Santa Clara...I started all of my comp trimming/prep at 5AM on Saturday....with a Cash & Carry brisket. I have SRF golds in my freezer but I left them at home. I sacrificed the competition to sell food to the public....and I'll do it again. Did you forget my 8th place outta 34 in North Bend? That is top 25 percentile but I guess that doesn't fit in with your argument. I think I made the most money at that event vending while not trying very hard on the comp side. Before this year, I have roughly 30 KCBS events under my belt with 3 RGCs, 6 top fives and 16 top 10 finishes. I'm okay with that. I am a judge (since 2013) and have judged in this area. I'm not saying judges don't put in their best effort and I don't have anything bad to say about most judges. They are just not professional judges. You have no standards to be held accountable to. You can give any entry any score you want and there is nothing anybody can do about it. Sure, you may get asked about it but you can't change the score. My very first KCBS contest was a Sams Club event. In ribs, there was one judge who thought the meat was not cooked all the way. They told the Reps they would not take a bite of it. It was 6 bones from one single rack of ribs. They could not force them to even take a bite of it and they ended up giving it 2s for taste and tenderness. You see my point! It that typical? No but it happens. You call that professional judging?
Thank you for your contributions to the sport of BBQ and sorry to hear you had some negative experiences with judges but that is why the low score is dropped.

So what would be your criteria for a Professional Judge? Would KCBS Masters’ qualifications be enough for you? Somebody who has put in the time to judge 30+ contests, passed an exam, and cooked with a team not enough?
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:41 AM   #198
Bob in Corona
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Don't want to speak for Dennis, but I believe he is also looking for Standards...

Dennis, didn't a well known pitmaster/cbj/promoter/organizer, who shall remain nameless..., once tell you a few years back that it was a "slippery slope" ?
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:32 AM   #199
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I’m still trying to understand why they have/need an Executive Director and a CEO
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:00 AM   #200
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I’m still trying to understand why they have/need an Executive Director and a CEO
The only thing I can figure is like England has a Queen and a Prime Minister. One is a figure head and one truly rules, and in KCBS the Queen rules.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:49 AM   #201
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Default Several things

After 14 years of competing and judging, I have chime in on this excellent thread.

The KCBS DOES need to give the CEO the ultimate power and quit meeting once a month passing rules that offer nothing.

Cook teams need to STOP expecting 9's on every entry they make. The judges are well versed on excellent BBQ and really do not need retraining. I am sick of whining teams bitching about the judges because they do not agree with their scoring. Yep, I judge too and 5 contests shy of being a Master Judge but more importantly, we cook more than we judge. Learn to cook a better product and quit bellyaching. AND, ask yourselves why certain teams consistently place near the top in each category. THAT alone should tell you to cook a better product.

IF the BOD really wants a plan of action to set themselves apart from other organizations....start working with local health departments in an effort to end restrictions of pit smoking REAL BBQ, the way it began and should continue. While at it, get them to loosen rules about feeding the public when they attend a cook-off. People get pissed when they come with expectations of tasting competition Q.

I expect to be bombarded of why I am wrong, especially from the whiners who beat down the judging....let it begin.....I will enjoy reading but will not respond.....too many other things to do like.....clean out my smoker.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:41 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickin' Porkers View Post
After 14 years of competing and judging, I have chime in on this excellent thread.

The KCBS DOES need to give the CEO the ultimate power and quit meeting once a month passing rules that offer nothing.

Cook teams need to STOP expecting 9's on every entry they make. The judges are well versed on excellent BBQ and really do not need retraining. I am sick of whining teams bitching about the judges because they do not agree with their scoring. Yep, I judge too and 5 contests shy of being a Master Judge but more importantly, we cook more than we judge. Learn to cook a better product and quit bellyaching. AND, ask yourselves why certain teams consistently place near the top in each category. THAT alone should tell you to cook a better product.

IF the BOD really wants a plan of action to set themselves apart from other organizations....start working with local health departments in an effort to end restrictions of pit smoking REAL BBQ, the way it began and should continue. While at it, get them to loosen rules about feeding the public when they attend a cook-off. People get pissed when they come with expectations of tasting competition Q.

I expect to be bombarded of why I am wrong, especially from the whiners who beat down the judging....let it begin.....I will enjoy reading but will not respond.....too many other things to do like.....clean out my smoker.
Stop procrastinating. Get cleaning.

I could not resist lol. Carry on.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:45 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickin' Porkers View Post
Cook teams need to STOP expecting 9's on every entry they make. The judges are well versed on excellent BBQ and really do not need retraining. I am sick of whining teams bitching about the judges because they do not agree with their scoring. Yep, I judge too and 5 contests shy of being a Master Judge but more importantly, we cook more than we judge. Learn to cook a better product and quit bellyaching. AND, ask yourselves why certain teams consistently place near the top in each category. THAT alone should tell you to cook a better product.

IF the BOD really wants a plan of action to set themselves apart from other organizations....start working with local health departments in an effort to end restrictions of pit smoking REAL BBQ, the way it began and should continue. While at it, get them to loosen rules about feeding the public when they attend a cook-off. People get pissed when they come with expectations of tasting competition Q.

I expect to be bombarded of why I am wrong, especially from the whiners who beat down the judging....let it begin.....I will enjoy reading but will not respond.....too many other things to do like.....clean out my smoker.
Sorry to see that you're hitting and running

The issue isn't teams expecting 9's on every turn in. It's teams expecting judges to follow the KCBS rules, not make up their own little tests or trying to "change the system via their judging. What's needed is accountability when judges (and reps) go outside the system and freelance based on their personal opinion. Teams also expect judges to understand and follow the rules AS THEY ARE WRITTEN. Fix those issues and 90% of the problem goes away.
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