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For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter. |
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03-28-2012, 05:21 PM | #16 | ||
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 02-27-07
Location: Northern VA
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Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA, Creekstone Farms, Myron Mixon Smokers & The BBQ Guru MABA 2014 Team of the Year Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast", 2 Vulcan V33's & 1 V9 Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens ----------------- MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President KCBS Certified Judge - #23289 |
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03-28-2012, 06:35 PM | #17 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 05-08-09
Location: Plano, TX
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03-29-2012, 08:54 AM | #18 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 09-03-09
Location: Pine Bluff, AR
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My problem with the parting rule is it should not take precedence over rule 17(g & h)
g. After cooking, all meat: Must be held at 140° F or above OR Cooked meat shall be cooled as follows: Within 2 hours from 140° F to 70° F and Within 4 hours from 70° F to 41° F or less h. Meat that is cooked, properly cooled, and later reheated for hot holding and serving shall be reheated so that all parts of the food reach a temperature of at least 165° F for a minimum of 15 seconds.After seeing a certain cook trim his pork butt last year, I think the parting rule doesn't achieve it's intent. I'm not in favor of cold pork hitting the judging table. This is my opinion only... |
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03-29-2012, 09:04 AM | #19 | ||
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 02-19-06
Location: Kansas City
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Candy is right... the parting rule is about parting it out before cooking. After it's cooked why can't I slice/chunk/pull, then sauce, and finish/hold hot like I can every other cut of meat? The rep advisory around pork not going back onto the pit after being parted... is the piece we need to get back to reality on. Now, I'm fine either way -- everyone else has to turn in cold pork too... and my scores are not effected either way... but it is near impossible to enforce that advisory, so we have to trust the other cooks... if someone is going to cheat... they were going to cheat anyway, and have it parted to begin with. I like the Parting rule... as it was written; but once my meat is cooked, let me do whatever I want with it. Quote:
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Andy /Smoke on Wheels Competition BBQ - www.smokeonwheels.com |
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03-29-2012, 04:20 PM | #20 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 05-08-09
Location: Plano, TX
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Why not change the rule on pork butt to read:
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be trimmed or separated except to remove excess fat. The meat must be cooked to a minimum internal temperature of 145 degree F. Once this temperature is reached, the pork may be removed from the cooker, separated, parted, wrapped, etc. and returned to the cooker or not. At this point in the cook cycle, rule 17, section g and h must be adhered to. |
03-29-2012, 05:28 PM | #21 | |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
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Back on topic, lets ask what the intent of the "pork cut definition", and the "no parting" rule are to begin with: To ensure teams are cooking "classic" pork shoulder, in the "traditional" style. What is so wrong with that? (and if you want to argue those terms are unclear, then you will find an argument in just about anytthing you want) As an aside, when possible, I am all for REDUCING rules in order to add clarity, rather than adding to them. It is possible. |
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03-30-2012, 07:10 PM | #22 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-07-06
Location: boston ma
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maybe the way to fix it is not to allow parting in any category so that our rules are consistant.
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Steve Farrin KCBS BOD member. Thank you for your support. This post is my opinion and mine alone, not necessarily that of the KCBS, it's board of directors or office nor that of Peter Pan, Tinkerbell and certainly not Rush Limbaugh. |
03-30-2012, 10:56 PM | #23 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 10-26-04
Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida
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I don't understand why you guys serve cold pork? Why can't you reheat the whole butt?
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Ray Lampe Dr. BBQ The Honey Badger of BBQ. I just don't give a sh!t. |
03-31-2012, 12:33 AM | #24 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 07-24-07
Location: Wantagh, NY
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Why is it that we can't understand the intent of the rule. It wasn't to limit your saucing technique, it wasn't to offer you the opportunity to butterfly out the butt into a 2 ft long slab of meat, it wasn't to promote the near separation of the money muscle it was to offer a legitimate starting point that all could achieve. A weight to make sure it wasn't suckling and a large dense cut to showcase technique.
Somehow the "voices of BBQ" have turned this rule into something its not. For some reason people tend to think that the parting rule was meant for all time. Cradle to grave so to speak. Unfortunately that makes you wonder when in fact you can actually dismantle the pork to put it in the box. In fact the only way the rule, as it was written for so long, can be interpreted as they say would mean that the whole entire butt be placed in the box unmolested. Because it states "and not parted". Don't tell me thats foolish because grammatically that is the only interpretation. If you feel that at any point in the process, even at the time of box building, that the pork can be dismantled then you must accept that when the butt has been cooked and removed with possibly resting it can be dismantled. At this point your only issue is to keep it warm. Some will say "You can cheat that way" and I will reply that I could cut my butt into 16 pieces cook it however I liked and probably get away with it. Does that mean I will? In the end our trust in our fellow competitors integrity is the only thing that makes any of this work. We can't approach this as a law to be enforced but rather a guideline for competitors to follow. Which is what all of our rules are. For some reason this one has really blown up because of many different perceptions of the rule. A real powderkeg. But when all is said and done we have to realize that this society was founded by friendly people with a friendly set of guidelines to ensure as fair a contest as possible. The competitor was charged with ensuring their own integrity. The large prize pools and lucrative sponsorships and ancillary winnings have some looking for more restrictions. Something they feel will ensure a better outcome. Unfortunately it will probably only create a different outcome and in doing so may change the face of a society many like just the way it is. The membership as a whole needs to decide if we want to hold dear the traditions set forth by the founders or if we want to go forward being more of a contests then a BBQ showcase with prizes. If its all about the money then everything else falls away. Lastly may I say that removing the pork parting rule completely would be devastating to the category and to the integrity of the rules set. Integrity is based on consistency not only in measure and principle but in action and expectation. The rules tend to inspire technique whereas the removal of a challenge such as this will dumb down the category. The need for a defined portion of meat changes if the parting rule is removed as well. Why limit to a shoulder, or part thereof, if there is not expectation of cooking it whole in a traditional manner?
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Yeah it looks good...but how does it smell? "you're eating tree RAT, tree RAT, you're eating RAT!" -- landarc |
03-31-2012, 09:01 AM | #25 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
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Well reasoned and presented. Just as importantly, the rules/guidelines were established to create a level playing field. A past board ruled on the issue, and issued an advisory that has been read at cooks meetings. The intent? Keep the playing field level. I know a lot of great cooks that have found methods to still cook within the rules and turn in a superior product the judges will reward them for. I have NO DOUBT that there are other cooks that are taking some shortcuts. Who is that most likely to hurt? You probably won't find many victims at the top of the ToY standings, or picking up checks on Saturday. The teams that are most likely to be harmed are those in the middle of the pack. Personally, I have no problem seeing the parting rule going away. I didn't have a problem arguing for it at the time this was a raging debate two years ago. It was the rule at that time, and needed to be upheld for at least the remainder of that season. If someone is going to sub a tenderloin they will do it regardless. With the techniques developed I really don't see many people taking the risk, but some may. If they get caught, they need to pay the penalty. Everybody else, cook and enjoy yourselves. Earlier in this thread it was suggested that cooks be limited to one piece of meat per category to create a great test of ability. Doesn't that also introduce more of an element of chance? Each piece of meat cooks differently. I'd hate to see someone penalized because a beautiful slab of ribs remained tough even though they appeared nice and well marbled. Beyond that, I've spoken to more than one VERY WELL KNOWN cook that only cooks one brisket or one butt. The theory being that they are monitoring fewer pieces of meat and it's easier for them. Ultimately, I'd like to see cooks with more options rather than less.
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa Keeping Valspar in BBQ, one cook at a time. Recipient of a Huggies box! Shut up, and cook!!!! |
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03-31-2012, 01:31 PM | #26 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 07-24-07
Location: Wantagh, NY
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My apologies. i seem to have missed the point of comparison with the quoted text?
Are we agreeing or disagreeing?
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Yeah it looks good...but how does it smell? "you're eating tree RAT, tree RAT, you're eating RAT!" -- landarc |
04-01-2012, 01:45 PM | #27 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
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Perhaps I missed the point of yours
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa Keeping Valspar in BBQ, one cook at a time. Recipient of a Huggies box! Shut up, and cook!!!! |
04-01-2012, 09:56 PM | #28 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-04-05
Location: Pleasant Hill, MO
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04-02-2012, 06:38 AM | #29 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 05-08-09
Location: Plano, TX
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You missed the point, temp guidelines are needed to ensure food safety based on FDA requirements and that is why they are a part of the rules now. Who enforces them, me and my cook, not the HD, at my restaurant. The HD makes the rules and we follow them. The consequences are somewhat severe if we don't, sickness, lawsuits and loss of business license. Simplify, and bring into line with the other categories, the rules since they are only enforceable, in the most part, by the cooks, and allow them to at least practice food safety legally. Four hours in the danger zone is a lifetime for most food borne illnesses. You put in FDA temperature guidelines as a defensible position for future actions if it becomes necessary. Last edited by Smoke'n Ice; 04-02-2012 at 07:14 AM.. Reason: spelling |
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04-02-2012, 04:58 PM | #30 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
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