MMMM.. BRISKET..
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.  



Our Homepage Donation to Forum Overhead Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Amazon Affiliate
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ > For the Board

Notices

For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-10-2010, 08:29 AM   #1
Sledneck
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Sledneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-04-05
Location: Wantagh, NY
Default Comment Card for scores below a 6

Should there be a mandatory comment card for a score below a 6? Has this ever been discussed/voted on? Does anybody else support this? If enough members are interested in making this a rule how do we get it on the table?
__________________
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"][URL="http://bbqilluminati.blogspot.com"]BBQ
Illuminati Blog[/URL][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
[B][COLOR="Blue"][B]Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any bad feelings or sense of exclusion that the reader of this post may have-whether real or imagined. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster of this thread would like to also remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.[/B][/COLOR][/B]
Sledneck is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-10-2010, 11:00 AM   #2
crd26a
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 04-16-09
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Default

No. If you told a judge you have to give a card for below a 6, it will prevent many from potentially scoring down when they should, for the simple fact they won't want to fill out a card. You'd basically force a baseline of 6 for everyone regardless, with the rare instance of going below a 6 for burnt / raw / overseasoned bbq only.
__________________
Border War Smokers - "BBQ worth killin' your neighbor for"
crd26a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 12:45 PM   #3
Gowan
is Blowin Smoke!

 
Join Date: 08-08-07
Location: Cartersville, GA
Default

No. Comment cards slow the judging process, so requiring every judge to do one on a bad entry would bog things down and frankly, not provide much more information to the cook. How many times must you be told your chicken was burnt?
Gowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 01:26 PM   #4
Ford
is Blowin Smoke!
 
Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-14-07
Location: Lakeland Florida
Default

Comment cards should be optional.
__________________
Ford
Retired competition cook. BBQ mentor.
Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 02:20 PM   #5
tmcmaster
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 09-23-08
Location: York, PA
Default

I agree, forcing a comment card for a score below a certain level would ensure that no scores were ever BELOW that.
__________________
Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head
tmcmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 03:46 PM   #6
Alexa RnQ
is Blowin Smoke!

 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Default

There are many excellent comments in this thread. Those I find pertinent are (bolded emphasis mine):

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
I absolutely think that if a judge really wants to give out a 5 or below, a one-word descriptor (i.e. salty, spicy, fatty, dry, tough, raw, whatever) isn't asking for too much to justify it.

... It's a reminder in process that 6 is average, and if a sample is truly below average they'd have a good notion why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rweller View Post
<snip>
As someone mentioned above I'm sure there are some judges that won't give a 5 or below because they have to fill out the comment card.
But then you have some judges(not many) that give them out left and right and it doesn't bother them to fill out the cards.<snip>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentley View Post
I would like to see it mandatory, but don't think it ever will be. I believe KCBS might be worried you would drive those judges away if they feel pressured to do so...I think that would be the best thing that could happen to the judging pool...You need judges who are as commited to excellence in the judging as you do a cook competing.
...<snip>...
I dont know how many times I have sat at a table with a non-CBJ or one that has judged 1-2 contest and they will give a score below a six and not even consider advising the team why...And I agree, the comment needs to be constructive and informative, if you cant articulate why you gave it a 3, 4 or 5, you have no business sitting in the seat.
<snip>

Regarding the idea that "comment cards aren't needed because some teams win consistently, so just learn to cook better" from another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
...part of a good teams's invaluable experience is learning how to compensate for the effects of the judging system. However, good teams' records are compiled over a fair amount of road time, which most teams don't put in; does that mean that the more occasional competitor doesn't deserve a consistent judging system?

The success of some teams doesn't mean that suggestions for improving the judging system are invalid; I don't think the answer is as simplistic as "cook better".
__________________
.
Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.


[url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url]
Alexa RnQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 02:39 PM   #7
Divemaster
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Divemaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
Default

I'm really sorry that I didn't see this thread when it came up.

I support the forcing of comment cards, but not with a 6 but a 5. I for one would love to see a card from the judges that gave me a 4, or in one case a 3, for appearance when the rest of the scores were 8's and 9's. This was not a one time problem, we are talking three comps out of 9 this year. I went back and asked to see the score sheets and was told by Mike Lake that it all had to be handled thru the office.

My thoughts would be that it could clear up some questionable scoring by the simple fact that when the table captain looks at a sheet and then asks for the card that maybe, it was simply written poorly and the '4' should have been a '9' and that '5' should have been an '8'.

I pay enough good money to enter a contest and feed the judges (just look at both the size and quantity of coolers) that I deserve and response to an out of place score.

Don't get me wrong. I've cooked more than my fair share of chitty entries. I'm looking at this as simple respect. Your calling what I did chit, tell me why.

Rant over
__________________
Jeff
CBJ# 23376
Stockcar BBQ
Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life!
If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish!

Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe.
Divemaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 04:05 PM   #8
ThomEmery
Babbling Farker
 
ThomEmery's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-20-05
Location: Indio Ca.
Default

A bit off topic

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=287

Wednesdays motion concerning CBJs that consistently
vote well outside the norm
__________________
Catering, Contests, and Community Service

Team What Wood Jesus Que?

Www.bbqthom.com
ThomEmery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 04:44 PM   #9
Smokedelic
Full Fledged Farker
 
Smokedelic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-24-06
Location: Tulsa, OK
Default

I think this is a good thing, Thom. I don't really care what a judges particular scores for an entry are, because I'm sure at times they all get "questionable" entries. But, I think seeing their differentiation from the table average for an entry is significant.

Identifying a trend of scoring significantly outside the table average may indicate a need for additional training for that particular judge. Or, it may help to identify weaknesses in the CBJ training program in general. Either way, if it eventually leads to more consistent scoring, I'm all for it.
__________________
Mike - Formerly Known as Team Enoserv
Smokedelic is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Old 10-12-2010, 05:58 PM   #10
ThomEmery
Babbling Farker
 
ThomEmery's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-20-05
Location: Indio Ca.
Default

Yes if the goal is education
I would favor it as well
__________________
Catering, Contests, and Community Service

Team What Wood Jesus Que?

Www.bbqthom.com
ThomEmery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 06:11 PM   #11
LGHT
Knows what a fatty is.
 
LGHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-10
Location: GO
Default

I always give a comment card for any score below a 6. In fact the table judge went around to everyone at the table and suggested they give a comment card for any score under 6. Oddly enough 1 entry got 6 cards that all said the same thing ;)
LGHT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 06:18 PM   #12
Tuff Dawg
Is lookin for wood to cook with.
 
Join Date: 07-08-10
Location: Gainesville, Georgia
Default

While at Oconee I received 2 comment cards on my Brisket. I loved the cards one said it was undercooked and the other said it was overcooked . I only cooked one brisket and took all six pieces from the middle. Now I have no clue as to what was wrong with it.
PS
After that I decided to go to the judging class in Janurary
Tuff Dawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 06:25 PM   #13
Contracted Cookers
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Contracted Cookers's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-11-07
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Default

if a judge scores down 2 points or lower then average from the rest of the table. table captain should have to step in with another table captain and see if there score is legit. I also thank that a table captian should have at least 10 contest to his or her credit. before they are allowed to table captian . we cannot keep having such skewed scoreing
Contracted Cookers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 06:26 PM   #14
dreed
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 02-01-09
Location: Montvale, NJ 07645
Default

Marc and I tried this approach at the recent event at Palmerton. We instructed the judges that if they score 5 or less they best be ready to back it up with constructive feedback. We took it one step further, that if they couldn't support a score of less than 6 with a comment card, we would default their score to a 6. (we weren't sanctioned).

surprise! we didn't get any 5's matter of fact I don't think we got any 6's. however all the turn-in were at the very least above average

Dana
__________________
Dana Reed, Chief Volunteer Officer, OBR
dreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 06:30 PM   #15
Contracted Cookers
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Contracted Cookers's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-11-07
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Default

i think that is so ture pa love emily ur fav kid ever
Contracted Cookers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got My FIRST comment card ! Podge Competition BBQ 17 08-22-2011 05:01 PM
My comment card Dan - 3eyzbbq Competition BBQ 35 05-24-2010 07:33 PM
Comment card question Lion Bout The Q Competition BBQ 6 09-14-2009 09:49 PM
I have to share this comment card Jacked UP BBQ Competition BBQ 37 08-12-2009 05:00 PM
Comment Card Comes Back Countryhb Catering, Vending and Cooking For The Masses. 10 03-30-2009 05:59 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Forum Custom Search: Enter your Search text below. GOOGLE will search ONLY the BBQ Brethren Forum.
Custom search MAY not work(no display box) in some configurations of Internet Explorer. Please use compliant version of Firefox or Chrome.







All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts