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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 06-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #136
Jorge
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I talked to a Rep last year and was told that the average was a rolling average of only your last 10 contests judged. If you didn't have 10 but 5 or more, they used your scores for an average. If you had less than 5, they used your scores and they had an average for new judges and your average was a combination of your scores and the newbie average. I have already email the BOD and said no matter what they chose to implement, please explain it to the membership.
That wasn't what I took away from listening to the guy that developed the process that was used, but I could be mistaken.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:45 AM   #137
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so, we're going away from chip draw and back to judges average seating in the next 11 days? Am I reading that right?

I know this is from the results of the survey, but if they could just come up with a system and keep it, that would be great.
This is absolutely dumb. That system is flawed and fixed nothing. If anything it made things worse. It should never be implemented again. All this does is kick the can down the road and ignore the actual problem.



I guess we are dictated by mob rule now.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:46 AM   #138
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That wasn't what I took away from listening to the guy that developed the process that was used, but I could be mistaken.
Can anything be learned by listening to him? When you debate him, the story changes on what the purpose of the seating system is based on the point you make.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:28 AM   #139
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This is absolutely dumb. That system is flawed and fixed nothing. If anything it made things worse. It should never be implemented again. All this does is kick the can down the road and ignore the actual problem.



I guess we are dictated by mob rule now.
The system is/was flawed (I suppose there could be improvements made before it is re-instituted in like a week, but I doubt it). However, I think that developing the system and refining it is the best way forward. I know we'll disagree on that, and that's cool. I am not married to this idea, but the chip draw doesn't actually do anything. If someone has a better idea then I'll listen.

That being said, training is the real issue, and the only way that we'll have long term improvement is by improving the training that judges receive, combined with a seating system that will decrease the likelihood (you'll never remove them) of TOD/TOA. If you're not doing both, you're not going to have the results you want long term.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:29 PM   #140
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When %75 of judges only judge 1-2 contests a year there is no data that can be relied on. And if there was, what's the goal? The creator of the current system says that it wasn't designed to eliminate TOD or TOA's. Then what's the purpose? What's the problem that this is supposed to be a solution to?


Anything is a better idea than seating by scoring average. The southwest shuffle was still better than that.


The issue is a small handful of ****ty judges. We had one last weekend in montana. Some lady that had declared herself the best outdoor cook in the country and everyone else's bbq sucked, wrote everyone worthless comment cards and gave us bad scores. Granted it didn't matter, there were only 4 tables but rest assured, this idiot will be judging again.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:32 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by tduffy View Post
When %75 of judges only judge 1-2 contests a year there is no data that can be relied on. And if there was, what's the goal? The creator of the current system says that it wasn't designed to eliminate TOD or TOA's. Then what's the purpose? What's the problem that this is supposed to be a solution to?


Anything is a better idea than seating by scoring average. The southwest shuffle was still better than that.


The issue is a small handful of ****ty judges. We had one last weekend in montana. Some lady that had declared herself the best outdoor cook in the country and everyone else's bbq sucked, wrote everyone worthless comment cards and gave us bad scores. Granted it didn't matter, there were only 4 tables but rest assured, this idiot will be judging again.
We got 2 comment cards, and neither of them seemed to make much sense. Don't know which table she was (I'm guessing your pork table?). I don't have the scoresheets here, I'll have to look later.

If it's the same as our chicken table, that was the worst one.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:26 PM   #142
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We got 2 comment cards, and neither of them seemed to make much sense. Don't know which table she was (I'm guessing your pork table?). I don't have the scoresheets here, I'll have to look later.

If it's the same as our chicken table, that was the worst one.
My bet is she was on table 315.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:29 PM   #143
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Granted it didn't matter, there were only 4 tables but rest assured, this idiot will be judging again.
It would if you hit the table twice
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:41 PM   #144
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If all judges played by the same mentality when it came to judging (i.e. starting at a 7 and going up or starting at a 9 and going down), then it wouldn't matter what the seating program was. You can't control taste buds or the quality of the entry that hits a given table on any given day, but if everyone played by the same set of procedures or best practices, then you provide the best possible outcome for all teams to be judged equally. When a judge tells a cook after a contest that they will never give a team a perfect score if there are only 6 pieces of chicken are in a box, then that is a problem and that is a judge playing by a different set of rules.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:48 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by manmeatbbq View Post
If all judges played by the same mentality when it came to judging (i.e. starting at a 7 and going up or starting at a 9 and going down), then it wouldn't matter what the seating program was. You can't control taste buds or the quality of the entry that hits a given table on any given day, but if everyone played by the same set of procedures or best practices, then you provide the best possible outcome for all teams to be judged equally. When a judge tells a cook after a contest that they will never give a team a perfect score if there are only 6 pieces of chicken are in a box, then that is a problem and that is a judge playing by a different set of rules.
^^ This ^^
The biggest issue in KCBS judging is there is no accountability or consequences for breaking the judging rules / guidelines.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:24 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by manmeatbbq View Post
If all judges played by the same mentality when it came to judging (i.e. starting at a 7 and going up or starting at a 9 and going down), then it wouldn't matter what the seating program was. You can't control taste buds or the quality of the entry that hits a given table on any given day, but if everyone played by the same set of procedures or best practices, then you provide the best possible outcome for all teams to be judged equally. When a judge tells a cook after a contest that they will never give a team a perfect score if there are only 6 pieces of chicken are in a box, then that is a problem and that is a judge playing by a different set of rules.

...... or a judge that tells you they never have or never will give anyone a 9. Heard it more than once.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:30 PM   #147
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...... or a judge that tells you they never have or never will give anyone a 9. Heard it more than once.
Agreed. This is the problem with judging, not some seating program. Re-certification of judges would be a great start. However, KCBS has to come out with a list of FAQs for judging classes, so that all the instructors of judging classes answer those very commonly asked questions the same.

You will still get judges that say they will never give someone a 9, and when that happens, KCBS needs to make sure they revoke their judging certification.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:44 PM   #148
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...... or a judge that tells you they never have or never will give anyone a 9. Heard it more than once.

If you hear that at a contest I'm Repping, I would appreciate you telling me. Except in Gettysburg, you're on your own there. lol
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:28 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by tduffy View Post
When %75 of judges only judge 1-2 contests a year there is no data that can be relied on. And if there was, what's the goal? The creator of the current system says that it wasn't designed to eliminate TOD or TOA's. Then what's the purpose? What's the problem that this is supposed to be a solution to?


Anything is a better idea than seating by scoring average. The southwest shuffle was still better than that.


The issue is a small handful of ****ty judges. We had one last weekend in montana. Some lady that had declared herself the best outdoor cook in the country and everyone else's bbq sucked, wrote everyone worthless comment cards and gave us bad scores. Granted it didn't matter, there were only 4 tables but rest assured, this idiot will be judging again.
I'm assuming you were judging since you can report with such clarity.
Why would you not call the Rep over explain what she said and request her removal? It (Shi**y judges) can change but it will take an effort instead of just shaking your head and posting stories.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:06 AM   #150
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I'm assuming you were judging since you can report with such clarity.
Why would you not call the Rep over explain what she said and request her removal? It (Shi**y judges) can change but it will take an effort instead of just shaking your head and posting stories.
Ed
If it's the individual I'm thinking of, she was wandering around Friday and then after judging Saturday telling people herself. I didn't realize she was a judge until Saturday afternoon, just thought she was someone talking herself up on Friday.
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