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Pork collar snake river

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole
Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall
be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the
meat once separated be returned to a cooker.
Click to expand...
There is the rule as it exists today. "Whole Shoulder", "Boston Butt", "Picnic". All three are clearly legal. The rule goes on to say that they may be cooked either "bone in" or "bone out". Nowhere does the rule say "..or portions thereof..." or anything similar.

Earlier I believed that it would be fairly simple for a rep inspecting meat to spot a collar that somebody may have mistakenly purchased. After seeing some additional pictures yesterday, and this morning, I'm not so sure and I agree with Bunny that it's a very tough spot for the reps to be in!

The rules and, more importantly, their intent are pretty clear to me. They exist, as written, to create a level playing field for ALL competitors. When folks start deciding that something is legal, because it isn't expressly prohibited, Pandora's Box is wide open.

EDIT: I can't wait for the day when teams start adding litigators to the lineup, and we are a lot closer to that point than many of you may believe.....allegedly.
 
Jorge said:
There is the rule as it exists today. "Whole Shoulder", "Boston Butt", "Picnic". All three are clearly legal. The rule goes on to say that they may be cooked either "bone in" or "bone out". Nowhere does the rule say "..or portions thereof..." or anything similar.
Click to expand...

But when I trim my 9lb IBP butt down to 6lbs isnt that a portion thereof?
 
Nope.. it's trimmed..and legal.
It's no different than trimming a brisket flat down to fit in the box prior to cooking.
At that point, it is no longer a flat, but a portion of the flat....and perfectly legal.
 
Jorge said:
There is the rule as it exists today. "Whole Shoulder", "Boston Butt", "Picnic". All three are clearly legal. The rule goes on to say that they may be cooked either "bone in" or "bone out". Nowhere does the rule say "..or portions thereof..." or anything similar.
Click to expand...

I agree, but isn't it understood that meat can be trimmed as the cook sees fit, as long as it is not trimmed under 5 lb? I think I've heard ppl say if you can find a 5 lb money muscle, use it, haven't I? Don't some teams trim the MM almost all the way off, but leave it connected so it is still a single "piece" of meat? Is it different to trim your own meat or to have your butcher/packer do it? Again, as long as it starts with the whole shoulder and gets cut down, I think it's just trimming, but if it includes more meat that the IMPS definition of a Shoulder, then it's illegal.

I think Dr. BBQ should weigh in on this one! I saw him on TV where a team broke down a pork loin during a time that they weren't supposed to. Guy brought up a good point that you can buy your meat that way from the butcher, so is it worth a DQ or just a minor point deduction. Granted, TV tail gaiting is not KCBS, but it was a valid point, and isn't this the reverse? If I can legally do it after I buy it, before I show up for inspection, can I not ask my butcher to do it for me?

dmp
 
roksmith said:
Nope.. it's trimmed..and legal.
It's no different than trimming a brisket flat down to fit in the box prior to cooking.
At that point, it is no longer a flat, but a portion of the flat....and perfectly legal.
Click to expand...
Comparing it to brisket is somewhat disingenuous, because there are no weight requirements in the rules for brisket.
 
ique said:
But when I trim my 9lb IBP butt down to 6lbs isnt that a portion thereof?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Being the honest cook, that I know you to be, I'd be confident that the 6 lb. piece of pork inspected was a butt.

That's a far cry, from someone trimming up a Shoulder for 6 lbs. of meat. I've yet to see a definitive description of what a pork collar actually is; that comes from a recognized authority.

If competition BBQ has come to the point that we are going to start splitting hairs that fine, it's in trouble.
 
dmprantz said:
I think Dr. BBQ should weigh in on this one! I saw him on TV where a team broke down a pork loin during a time that they weren't supposed to. Guy brought up a good point that you can buy your meat that way from the butcher, so is it worth a DQ or just a minor point deduction. Granted, TV tail gaiting is not KCBS, but it was a valid point, and isn't this the reverse? If I can legally do it after I buy it, before I show up for inspection, can I not ask my butcher to do it for me?

dmp
Click to expand...


That was a completely different deal. There was a guy there from the National Restaurant Association who'd written the rules and was responsible for enforcing them. We were just discussing it for TV.

But I do think I know the intent because I was actively cooking when the rule was changed from "any pork" to butt, picnic, etc. KCBS was growing and they wanted to clean up the rules and they also wanted to make it so the food was real BBQ and butts etc fit the bill.
The open poultry category was changed to chicken at that time as well.
 
drbbq said:
That was a completely different deal. There was a guy there from the National Restaurant Association who'd written the rules and was responsible for enforcing them. We were just discussing it for TV.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I obviously wasn't there, and it wasn't KCBS anyway. I just thought that the point Guy raised about it not being something the butcher could have done for them interesting. This reminds me of that because a big part of what we are talking about, does it matter if you trim the meat or the butcher does?

dmp
 
Once again, I will tell my version of how the pork parting rule evolved. (Bunny, if you are reading this, please correct me if I am mistaken. I know you and Rich were around in 1993 when the pork rule was changed.)

Prior to 1993, the KCBS had little restrictions on what could be submitted as a pork entry. Country-style ribs from the loin were allowed to be submitted as a rib entry. They were also allowed as a pork entry as long as you had not submitted them as your rib entry. ANY cut of pork was allowed to be submitted as long as the cut was not spare or back ribs. This meant loin cuts, tenderloin, pork steak, economy style (shoulder cut) ribs, ham steaks, ham and any other pork cut could be submitted.

When the rule was changed to pork shoulder/Boston butt/picnic weighing at least five pounds, there were teams trying to circumvent this rule. Once the meat was inspected, some teams would cut the shoulder into smaller cuts such as economy style ribs or pork steaks. This brought about the clause about the parting rule that some people think makes no sense.

Stouts,

Juggy
 
Jorge said:
I've yet to see a definitive description of what a pork collar actually is; that comes from a recognized authority.
Click to expand...

Your statement (even before you posted it) is the exact reason I keep posting to this thread.
Everyone was so quick to say that it is illegal without knowing what one was...

All of Europe and Australia (and I'm sure other places) call what we call a "Boston Butt", a "Collar Butt".

Now I still have no idea what SRF is selling. But just the fact that it's under 5 lbs makes it illegal.
 
Completely agree. Now, if you call them up and specifically ask for one that is 5.1 lbs.. is it legal?

..that's assuming that it is indeed a special trim of a regular butt.
..btw I have an email into them asking what the heck it is and why they advertise it as for BBQ comps when it's under 5lbs.
 
It's the same hunk of meat Ray.
Awfully rude of Europe not to use an American term to name their cuts of pork.
 
drbbq said:
That's good news for the cheaters when KCBS starts sanctioning contests in Europe.
Click to expand...

Now I'll go back to one of my original questions on this thread: Are you saying that people are cheaters because it has a different name or because it is something else?

dmp
 
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