Professional judging, or lack thereof

B

BBQSMYBFF

Guest
YankeeBBQ said:
Congrats to all the winners and anyone who got a call. We got shut out this weekend. We went behind the trailer and cried for a minute or two but it's all good now.
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i think everyone did because of the poor judging.. i have not been in the competition end of this stuff very long but i know good bbq and i know what tastes good.... since i refuse to dumb down my bbq for those judges we got beat for it... the food was amazing and yet nothing.. not even a walk.. we got 899,789, 887, 765, and 764 in one category... and then i get a 4 from one judge on APPLE TENDERNESS!!?!? what a joke.. we made a complete flop for the apples and they loved the junk.. you know what it was!?!? A DAMN BOBOLI PIZZA CRUST WITH EVERY LEFT OVER WE HAD IN OUR FRIDGE, FROM PULLED PORK, TO HONEY HAM, TO BLUE CHEESE, MOZZ CHEESE... it was good.. but looked like hell and we took 7th!!!

judgeing at these competitions has become and joke and unless the KCBS changes their judging and gets professionals and some standardized judging into these comps i am done!!!!!
 
BBQSMYBFF said:
judgeing at these competitions has become and joke and unless the KCBS changes their judging and gets professionals and some standardized judging into these comps i am done!!!!!
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Sometimes you need to take a breath... and just move on. You'll give yourself a heart attack if you let yourself get too worked up. I'm there with you that sometimes its frustrating as to how you think the scores should be vs what comes out on those sheets (I didn't exactly think the ribs I turned in were going to end up where they did)... and I understand you spent a lot of $$ and all the other issues... I get it, I'm there with you... but...

sometimes you need to realize its just farking bbq... and there is always next weekend.
 
Transformer BBQ said:
Sometimes you need to take a breath... and just move on. You'll give yourself a heart attack if you let yourself get too worked up. I'm there with you that sometimes its frustrating as to how you think the scores should be vs what comes out on those sheets (I didn't exactly think the ribs I turned in were going to end up where they did)... and I understand you spent a lot of $$ and all the other issues... I get it, I'm there with you... but...

sometimes you need to realize its just farking bbq... and there is always next weekend.
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YOU AINT LYING!!!
 
After looking in the judges room for the first time ever, I went from using sauce to geritol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
BBQSMYBFF said:
judgeing at these competitions has become and joke and unless the KCBS changes their judging and gets professionals and some standardized judging into these comps i am done!!!!!
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That is one of the dumbest statements I have ever read
 
OC PIG ASSASSINS said:
After looking in the judges room for the first time ever, I went from using sauce to geritol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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All espresso jokes aside that is not cool and not funny. These folks spend their own time and money to do this. They should be appreciated .....
 
BBQSMYBFF said:
i think everyone did because of the poor judging...
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I disagree. The judging was not poor when I did my first comp here in town 5 years ago and finished 64th of 70. And the judging will not be poor this weekend when we cook our 59th contest since that first one. There is both skill and luck involved in our sport/hobby (as in most), and sometimes we don't finish where we wished or expected to. But the one constant that remains, is that if you don't enjoy the time at a contest with friends you make along the way, and are not able to handle both the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, then maybe it's not for you, but don't blame the judges.
 
Sledneck said:
All espresso jokes aside that is not cool and not funny. These folks spend their own time and money to do this. They should be appreciated .....
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They should also be standardized.. and realistic... they are not professionals and i feel if you are going to have professional barbecue comps that you should have professional judges... not someone who like to have a side of sauce with their ribs.. but someone who can judge flavors and combination of flavors... anyone can go and get a stock rub from shop rite and slap it on the smoker and top it with some sweet baby rays...

the problem is these people are one way minds and dont know what real food is.. you want real competition?! get some real judges who know food and have some culinary experience... it can not be based on a i like and i dislike.. it has to do with the way it taste and the tastes go together..

if you dont like spicy then people who use chilis are screwed?!?! thats not fair at all.. that is actually pretty pathetic.. i have tasted some of the competitions food and it is outstanding and some of them dont even get to walk or anything.. this i not just for me this is for everyone.. some of these guys really deserve better scores and some kind of standardized judging....

If there are not professional judges with experience than there is no such thing as a professional barbecue comp...

just my opinion..
 
Whats wrong with sweet babys rays :p, seriously though what do want for experience, all CIA grads?
 
goodsmokebbq said:
Whats wrong with sweet babys rays :p, seriously though what do want for experience, all CIA grads?
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yes... that would be the correct experience needed.. or atleast more than a 3 hour class....

the only thingi am saying is that there should me NO AND I MEAN NO I LIKE THIS OR I DONT LIKE THIS...

that is not how judging works.. it is all wow this has great flavor, wow this box looks nice.. wow that wasabi glaze goes great with sweet rub..

that is how it should be judged.. there should be NO PERSONAL TASTE BUDS... even if it is not your favorite if it still works it still works.. that is why it is comes down to finding out what they like and sticking with it..

but i dont think you should have to go with sweet baby rays and no other spices to make these judges happy.. i just dont think there is a good handle on the judging..


would also like to put this out there that we did not finish dead last and actually did halfway decent but i am still un happy for myself and alot of others who food is awesome and should have been better judges!!!

to much inconsistancey and i have had some agree with me that are very influencial in the bbq world...
 
BBQSMYBFF said:
but i dont think you should have to go with sweet baby rays and no other spices to make these judges happy.. i just dont think there is a good handle on the judging..
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OK. How do you explain the fact, that even with judges pulled off the street you see the same teams finishing consistently much more often than not? When you factor in the fact that judges, and cooks both have 'off' days I think the judges get it right much more often than not. You turn in the best product you can turn out on any given day, and hope for the best. That will never change as long as there are real people in the process.

You are talking about judging, which by definition is subjective.
 
I think you're walking a fine line here... when you make blanket statements on the judges you're in a way insulting the teams that did walk and did do well. In a backhanded way you're saying that if you did well you turned in bland generic food...

Chris won brisket... so were the judges saying his was the plainest that was turned in? He was 1st place brisket at the American Royal last year out of 530? teams... were those judges wrong too?

And as a side note... if you're using a wasabi glaze at a KCBS contest... please feel free to come anywhere I'm competing.

Side Note #2: Chris, your brisket was awesome, and deserving of the scores... (I got to taste it)
 
BBQSMYBFF said:
wow that wasabi glaze goes great with sweet rub..
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Ummm this is a bbq/barbecue/Barbeque (however you want to spell it) competition. Shouldn't the first step be making it taste like bbq ? Just because something tastes great doesn't mean it should do well in a bbq competition.
 
Jorge said:
OK. How do you explain the fact, that even with judges pulled off the street you see the same teams finishing consistently much more often than not? When you factor in the fact that judges, and cooks both have 'off' days I think the judges get it right much more often than not. You turn in the best product you can turn out on any given day, and hope for the best. That will never change as long as there are real people in the process.

You are talking about judging, which by definition is subjective.
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it is totally subjective and the same teams do win over and over and show good in most events.. but why? is their food that good? I dont know if i believe that.. i think they might just know what the judges want..
 
BBQSMYBFF said:
i think everyone did because of the poor judging.. i have not been in the competition end of this stuff very long but i know good bbq and i know what tastes good.... since i refuse to dumb down my bbq for those judges we got beat for it... the food was amazing and yet nothing.. not even a walk.. we got 899,789, 887, 765, and 764 in one category... and then i get a 4 from one judge on APPLE TENDERNESS!!?!? what a joke.. we made a complete flop for the apples and they loved the junk.. you know what it was!?!? A DAMN BOBOLI PIZZA CRUST WITH EVERY LEFT OVER WE HAD IN OUR FRIDGE, FROM PULLED PORK, TO HONEY HAM, TO BLUE CHEESE, MOZZ CHEESE... it was good.. but looked like hell and we took 7th!!!

judgeing at these competitions has become and joke and unless the KCBS changes their judging and gets professionals and some standardized judging into these comps i am done!!!!!
Click to expand...

OK - first of all, you are fairly new to competition BBQ (and the Brethren) so I'll cut you some slack (for now.)

This is my team's second year competing and here are some thoughts:

- Why do so many teams (across the nation) seem to win consitently? They must be doing something right. in the NE it's I-Que, Lakeside Smokers, Purple Turtles, SIDE, Q-Haven, BBQ Brethren, Anchormen, Swamp Pit, Sledneck, etc. They generally finish in the top 10 in at least one category and many take GC and RGCs at least once a year.

- Yes, the judging can sometimes be frustrating: a 4 or 5 thrown in amongst 7s, 8s and even 9s. That's why they drop the lowest score - so they can weed out a bonehead at each table. We all get pi$$ed off at times with the judging and there are definitely some areas that could use improvement but overall see the previous point.

- We have been disappointed with our placing in some categories and totally surprised in others. We have not broken the top ten in any category but we are getting there. We also have not practiced enough and that is the main reason why we have not gotten better.

- Remember: You, your team members and friends and family may love your food but you have to remember the judges (most of them) have a standard that they are measuring against. Yes - there are issues that need to be addressed in judging and we hope they improve the system.

- Read this site and glean as much as you can re: turn-in boxes, flavor profiles, pictures, winning rubs and sauces (packaged, customized or scratch-made), temps, cooker mods, fuel, times, post-cook, etc. There is so much to learn and we are only beginning to get better. We finished in the middle of the pack overall a few times, and sometimes worse, but we are improving steadily.

- Most importantly: Have fun!!! It's a tough "sport" but it can be rewarding. If you're not having fun you should stop competing.
 
YankeeBBQ said:
Ummm this is a bbq/barbecue/Barbeque (however you want to spell it) competition. Shouldn't the first step be making it taste like bbq ? Just because something tastes great doesn't mean it should do well in a bbq competition.
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that is my point... bbq i not just tomato bases sauces but everyone thinks it is.. that is not the truth at all... glazes and sweet rubs can be bbq.. bbq can be anything you want it to me as long as it is cook low and slow as they say...

but that is the problem with the judges.. they think bbq should be ribs slopped with bbq sauce.. that is not the way it should be.. you should HAVE to make your own rubs... you should have to make your own sauces... and there should be no saucing.. saucing is an excuse to cover your meat.. that why you can go to any bbq joint in the country and get your ribs nakes with nothing on them..

that is real bbq.. not slopped with sauce..
 
BigBarry said:
in the NE it's I-Que, Lakeside Smokers, Purple Turtles, SIDE, Q-Haven, BBQ Brethren, Anchormen, Swamp Pit, Sledneck,
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Damn Big Barry give me some LOVE. We have been NEBS team of the year for 3 years running. I'm hurt.

I Smell Smoke !!!
 
BigBarry said:
OK - first of all, you are fairly new to competition BBQ (and the Brethren) so I'll cut you some slack (for now.)

This is my team's second year competing and here are some thoughts:

- Why do so many teams (across the nation) seem to win consitently? They must be doing something right. in the NE it's I-Que, Lakeside Smokers, Purple Turtles, SIDE, Q-Haven, BBQ Brethren, Anchormen, Swamp Pit, Sledneck, etc. They generally finish in the top 10 in at least one category and many take GC and RGCs at least once a year.

- Yes, the judging can sometimes be frustrating: a 4 or 5 thrown in amongst 7s, 8s and even 9s. That's why they drop the lowest score - so they can weed out a bonehead at each table. We all get pi$$ed off at times with the judging and there are definitely some areas that could use improvement but overall see the previous point.

- We have been disappointed with our placing in some categories and totally surprised in others. We have not broken the top ten in any category but we are getting there. We also have not practiced enough and that is the main reason why we have not gotten better.

- Remember: You, your team members and friends and family may love your food but you have to remember the judges (most of them) have a standard that they are measuring against. Yes - there are issues that need to be addressed in judging and we hope they improve the system.

- Read this site and glean as much as you can re: turn-in boxes, flavor profiles, pictures, winning rubs and sauces (packaged, customized or scratch-made), temps, cooker mods, fuel, times, post-cook, etc. There is so much to learn and we are only beginning to get better. We finished in the middle of the pack overall a few times, and sometimes worse, but we are improving steadily.

- Most importantly: Have fun!!! It's a tough "sport" but it can be rewarding. If you're not having fun you should stop competing.
Click to expand...




AMEN!!! GREG YOU SAID ENOUGH!! i have met you and barry and the crew and i know you guys as well as your food!! TRUST ME THIS IS WHAT NEEDED TO BE SAID AND YOU GOT IT OUT THERE WELL!! THANKS
 
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