MMMM.. BRISKET..
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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 03-20-2019, 10:01 PM   #1
keodark
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Default Hot/Fast vs Low/Slow Brisket on PELLET

Hi all,
I've been slowing ramping up my cooks on my new MAK 2-star and loving the cooker so far. My ultimate goal, though, is to get good texas-style brisket. I'm trying to read/watch everything I can on the subject before diving in, and I'm left with two big questions:

1) What's the benefit of Low/Slow if Hot/Fast can achieve the same (texture & flavor) results? I'm willing to wait and spend the fuel, but I haven't seen anything conclusive on whether Low & Slow can produce a better end result.

2) If cooking on a pellet grill (like my MAK), is Hot and Fast really an option? Isn't a few hours at a high temp followed by a wrap going to severely limit the amount of smoke? Can a tube smoker actually make up the difference?

Thanks!
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:09 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keodark View Post
Hi all,
I've been slowing ramping up my cooks on my new MAK 2-star and loving the cooker so far. My ultimate goal, though, is to get good texas-style brisket. I'm trying to read/watch everything I can on the subject before diving in, and I'm left with two big questions:

1) What's the benefit of Low/Slow if Hot/Fast can achieve the same (texture & flavor) results? I'm willing to wait and spend the fuel, but I haven't seen anything conclusive on whether Low & Slow can produce a better end result.

2) If cooking on a pellet grill (like my MAK), is Hot and Fast really an option? Isn't a few hours at a high temp followed by a wrap going to severely limit the amount of smoke? Can a tube smoker actually make up the difference?

Thanks!
I am not an expert on Texas Style brisket, but I think you will have a hard time getting the bark that most people associate with "Texas Style" doing a traditional hot and fast (with wrap) method.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:18 PM   #3
SmittyJonz
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Low n Slow (180*-200*) for 2 hours then Hot n Fast (300-325*), Nekid...........
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keodark View Post
Hi all,
I've been slowing ramping up my cooks on my new MAK 2-star and loving the cooker so far. My ultimate goal, though, is to get good texas-style brisket. I'm trying to read/watch everything I can on the subject before diving in, and I'm left with two big questions:

1) What's the benefit of Low/Slow if Hot/Fast can achieve the same (texture & flavor) results? I'm willing to wait and spend the fuel, but I haven't seen anything conclusive on whether Low & Slow can produce a better end result.
IMHO ( and the O of many on here) there is no benefit to LnS. Some of the most highly regarded BBQ joints in Texas cook at 275° and higher.

Quote:
2) If cooking on a pellet grill (like my MAK), is Hot and Fast really an option? Isn't a few hours at a high temp followed by a wrap going to severely limit the amount of smoke? Can a tube smoker actually make up the difference?

Thanks!
Sure it's an option. I would suggest not to use the smoke tube unless you like the flavor of creosote. A couple of hours at the lowest (or smoke setting, i'm not familiar with the MAK's controls) temp will do the trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pharp View Post
I am not an expert on Texas Style brisket, but I think you will have a hard time getting the bark that most people associate with "Texas Style" doing a traditional hot and fast (with wrap) method.
Not true in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmittyJonz View Post
Low n Slow (180*-200*) for 2 hours then Hot n Fast (300-325*), Nekid...........
Exactly. Trust the Smitty. He knows his stuff! :)
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:26 AM   #5
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When I cooked on a WSM and Hunsaker Drum I preferred HnF (300-325) because I didn't have to cook overnight and achieved great results.

Now that I'm cooking them on a PG (MAK), it's smoke for a couple hours, 225 for 6hrs then 245 until IT hits 165-170 then wrap, if I'm in a hurry I'll ramp up the temp to 300 if not let it ride at 250-275 until prob tender. The reason for the LnS is smoke profile, if you start cooking at 300 that brisket is going to taste like it was cooked in an oven with no smoke profile.

I kind of miss cooking Brisket and Butts HnF not because of the results more so I enjoyed the process, kicking around getting a 30gal Gateway Drum for HnF cooks.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleebus.jones View Post
IMHO ( and the O of many on here) there is no benefit to LnS. Some of the most highly regarded BBQ joints in Texas cook at 275° and higher.



Sure it's an option. I would suggest not to use the smoke tube unless you like the flavor of creosote. A couple of hours at the lowest (or smoke setting, i'm not familiar with the MAK's controls) temp will do the trick.



Not true in my experience.



Exactly. Trust the Smitty. He knows his stuff! :)
I cook everything hot and fast, but have yet to replicate that thick black bark that I think most people associate with "texas brisket." I actually am not concerned with the bark, but the few times I have tried to replicate it have been unsuccessful. I would love some tips/advice on getting it while cooking hot and fast!
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:18 AM   #7
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I'm not the brisket expert but I think using a coarse rub is more important than how you cook your brisket. When I use a fine grained rub on brisket or beef short ribs, even doing LnS, I never get that thick bark.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharp View Post
I cook everything hot and fast, but have yet to replicate that thick black bark that I think most people associate with "texas brisket." I actually am not concerned with the bark, but the few times I have tried to replicate it have been unsuccessful. I would love some tips/advice on getting it while cooking hot and fast!
Not sure why you're having trouble but it may be related to the rub you're using and the application of it. Sugar is one of the main things that will form the bark. I also use Worcestershire to stick it down.

If you use a sugarless rub, expect results like this:

This is a Pork Spinalis roast (first time my wife smoked anything on the PG1000, I think she did a great job!)




This was cooked straight through, 275° on a PG1000. No wrap, just cooked nekkid. Used Meathead's big bad beef rub, which was applied after shaking Worcestershire over the meat. It has some sugar in it, not as much as the pork rub, but enough to make things happen.





Chuck roast



Pork Shoulder



Now that's not to say that you can't get a bark without it, but it may take longer than you think. A super clean fire will also lead to a lighter looking end product. Just gotta keep experimentin'!
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:16 AM   #9
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I like 275 deg for brisket. Wrap when the bark is set and take to 205 deg in the thick part of the flat. I then set the controller to smoke and hold for 1-2 hours followed by a 30 min rest unwrapped on the counter.

For more smoke use a tub or leave on smoke for first hour
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleebus.jones View Post
Not sure why you're having trouble but it may be related to the rub you're using and the application of it. Sugar is one of the main things that will form the bark. I also use Worcestershire to stick it down.

If you use a sugarless rub, expect results like this:

This is a Pork Spinalis roast (first time my wife smoked anything on the PG1000, I think she did a great job!)




This was cooked straight through, 275° on a PG1000. No wrap, just cooked nekkid. Used Meathead's big bad beef rub, which was applied after shaking Worcestershire over the meat. It has some sugar in it, not as much as the pork rub, but enough to make things happen.





Chuck roast



Pork Shoulder



Now that's not to say that you can't get a bark without it, but it may take longer than you think. A super clean fire will also lead to a lighter looking end product. Just gotta keep experimentin'!

Very nice. I will add some sugar next time I decide to play with it. I would anticipate at 275 unwrapped the whole time it will still take quite a while.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:54 AM   #11
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Default Hot/Fast vs Low/Slow Brisket on PELLET

For what it’s worth, I do most all of my low n slows at 210° with the meat placed on the upper grate which hovers around 225-230°. I don’t care if the cook takes 15+ hours because the results are always really good. In my opinion, pellet poopers turn out better results if you don’t try to rush it and just let it do what it does best... cook low n slow. It’s not like you have to be involved in the cooking process... lol. For things like butts and briskets, I always start the cook around 9-10pm the night before. The meat is typically done and resting between 11am-1pm the following day. I love this method and the long rest that it provides the meat prior to dinner time. Here’s a small butt I stuck on the MAK this past Saturday at 8pm... and here it is at the 6am checkin the following morning. It came off at 10:30am just in time for a 2:30 hour rest before our 1pm lunch. Super easy and stress free cooking :)
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalters View Post
For what it’s worth, I do most all of my low n slows at 210° with the meat placed on the upper grate which hovers around 225-230°. I don’t care if the cook takes 15+ hours because the results are always really good. In my opinion, pellet poopers turn out better results if you don’t try to rush it and just let it do what it does best... cook low n slow. It’s not like you have to be involved in the cooking process... lol. For things like butts and briskets, I always start the cook around 9-10pm the night before. The meat is typically done and resting between 11am-1pm the following day. I love this method and the long rest that it provides the meat prior to dinner time. Here’s a small butt I stuck on the MAK this past Saturday at 8pm... and here it is at the 6am checkin the following morning. It came off at 10:30am just in time for a 2:30 hour rest before our 1pm lunch. Super easy and stress free cooking :)
I'm the same way with my pellet. Keep it as easy as possible. The one I did last weekend went on at midnight at 225. Went to bed, woke up at 5:30, and went from there. It was done at noon and in the cooler until 5. Came out great as usual.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:33 AM   #13
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Adkins Western Style Rub.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:41 PM   #14
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All pellet cookers are not the same, so there is no one size fits all method. Airflow and humidity has a lot to with bark. Play around with your cooker and find what works best for you on your smoker. I can get Brisket as dark as coal on my FEC-100 with just salt and pepper, but for me that means going low and slow the whole way with the first four hours at 180 before going up to 225 until it’s done, almost always on an overnight cook.

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Old 03-21-2019, 01:38 PM   #15
keodark
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Thanks for the input everyone. I think this calls for an experiment, since opinions seem to vary, and I need the practice anyway.

I propose the following pseudoscientific experiment, which has likely been done and documented before, but maybe not on a MAK...

I choose two packer briskets of same grade and as close as possible in weight.
Backyard trim, liberal rub with kosher salt and coarse black pepper, 50-50.
Allow to dry-brine for 4-6 hours or overnight (same for both briskets).
Cook brisket on upper grate of MAK, with a water pan.

Method 1: Low & Slow:
Start at "Smoke" setting (~180) for 2 hours
Increase temperature to 225 until bark is set (during or immediately after the stall)
Wrap in butcher paper and increase temp to 275 until "butter" texture, somewhere between 203 and 210 degrees.
Pull and hold/rest for 1 hour in a towel-lined cooler.
Unwrap and allow to cool to 140 or so, slice to serve.


Method 2: Hot n Fast
Start at "Smoke" setting (~180) for 2 hours
Increase temperature to 300 and cook until "butter" texture, without wrapping.
Pull, wrap in butcher paper, hold/rest for 1 hour in a towel-lined cooler
Unwrap and allow to cool to 140 or so, slice to serve.

Any suggestions for changes to the above before I go spend $100+ on brisket? :)
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