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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking. |
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09-30-2011, 01:56 PM | #46 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 06-26-09
Location: sAn leAnDRo, CA
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If I was going to cook for a crowd, which I do often, I take the cook time and stall out of the equation, I cook the meat the day before. When I am cooking for either a vend, catering or family dinner where timing is important, I tend to shy away from brisket, which does not store all that well, and go with pulled pork, which I can cook ahead of time, crash cool in turkey bags, store in fridge and then reheat on the cooker for a hour of so before pulling and serving. I can get very good product, no scheduling hassles and still have the magic of the aroma of smoke and pulling from the cooker.
I will need to consider the idea that there is no stall in foil, I don't generally foil, and I am willing to accept the facts as presented by Doctor Blonder, since there seems to be more to his presentation than initially presented. It does challenge what I have been taught by quite a few very good chefs and cooks, who were, given, not scientists. I am no scientist myself, my interest lies purely in preparing and serving good food. To that end, these discussions serve to pique my interest, more than change my cooking. I am sure Doctor Blonder and I could enjoy some of my pulled pork, regardless of the science.
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[COLOR=DarkGreen][COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]me: I don't drink anymore Yelonutz: me either, but, then again, I don't drink any less [/SIZE][/COLOR][/COLOR][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkRed] [COLOR=Pink]SSS[/COLOR] [/COLOR][/SIZE] |
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09-30-2011, 08:14 PM | #47 |
Found some matches.
Join Date: 07-09-11
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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My question is, do you want to avoid the stall? I believe Dr. Blonder when he says the meat gets up to temperature faster with foil, but is this a good thing? When cooking sous vide you have these incredibly long cooking times which supposedly tenderize the meat without drying it out. So maybe keeping the meat at this temperature for several hours improves it, regardless of what the mechanism is.
Meathead, have you tried it both ways, and if so, have you noticed a difference? |
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09-30-2011, 09:02 PM | #48 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 06-15-09
Location: Scituate, RI
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Bover, I think that makes sense AND you need another beer, I know I do!
Anyway, Dr. Blonder's experiments provide a scientific explanation for something competition cooks have known for a long time from practical experience. Foil helps push you quickly through the stall so you can more accurately time your cook. Now we know why. To the haters I say: If timing is not so important to you; if you like a crustier bark, or if you believe that braising isn't BBQ, then by all means don't foil! Nobody is trying to convert you! Sometimes I foil and sometimes I don't, as the situation or my mood dictates. Variety is the spice of life after all! I also would like to see an experiment that attempts to establish an optimum temperature (or temperature range) for tenderness when cooking a pork butt, or ribs, or a brisket. BBQ, like all cooking, is a combination of art and science. I think the best cooks are well versed in both.
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Mister Bob, Pitmaster - Smokestack Lightning, Bad Ass Barbecue. KCBS CBJ #31759 - IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller |
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09-30-2011, 09:08 PM | #49 |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 09-29-11
Location: niagara falls new york
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I noticed this at my last comp... my brisket stalled at 170... it would not come up for hrs!!! it dropped 2-3 degrees in this time come back up then drop again... then it took off ... very good artical ty for the post! I will wrap in foil sooner now that I can see whats going on...
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09-30-2011, 09:09 PM | #50 | |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 11-16-06
Location: Chicago suburbs
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Quote:
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09-30-2011, 09:14 PM | #51 | |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 11-16-06
Location: Chicago suburbs
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Quote:
Now how do we quantify that? |
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09-30-2011, 09:19 PM | #52 | |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 11-16-06
Location: Chicago suburbs
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Quote:
meathead |
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10-01-2011, 06:32 AM | #53 |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 11-16-06
Location: Chicago suburbs
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Guamaque: How does the thermal mass theory account for the fact that two pieces of pork cut from the same shoulder, identical weight, cooked side by side IN THE SAME SMOKER heated at VASTLY different rates when one was wrapped in foil? How does it explain that the internal temp dropped immediately and drastically when the foil was removed? The thermal mass of the smoker and the meat were identical for each piece. The data is in the last chart on this page http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_tech...the_stall.html
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10-01-2011, 07:48 AM | #54 |
On the road to being a farker
Join Date: 03-16-10
Location: Odenton, MD
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I enjoyed the article. It clearly answers the question of what causes the stall. The next questions: what temperature does the connective tissue break down? If it is at the stall temp, then a long stall may be important to tender meat. If it is above the stall, than a long stall is not necessary.
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10-01-2011, 07:54 AM | #55 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 02-21-11
Location: Old Town, Maine
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Quote:
Interesting little "down and dirty" experiment, it certainly appears that evaporative cooling may be the cause of the "stall". |
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10-01-2011, 08:14 AM | #56 | |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 11-16-06
Location: Chicago suburbs
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Quote:
http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_tech...t_science.html It also contains a lot of other important temperatures such as fat rendering, myoglobin denaturation, etc. Is it important to quality to have a stall? I don't know. This will require some side by side taste tests. Anecdotal evidence from competitions is that very good meat is produced in foil. |
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10-01-2011, 02:42 PM | #57 |
Moderator
Join Date: 09-17-05
Location: Mooresville, NC
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I have shared the article with a friend of mine who is on the BOD for the Culinary Institute of America....
He replied as follows Check out www.modernistcuisine.com Not only is it plausible, it's absolutely true. Nathan Mhyrvold, a physicist who had completed a PhD in theoretical and mathematical physics by age 23, studied under Stephen Hawkings and was the first Chief Technology Officer for Microsoft--and is also a deeply commited foodie and well-trained French Chef who wrote a $650 (retail price) 5 volume cookbook called Modernist Cuisine--has not only stated it is true but has also proved it was true with detailed experiments in a $5 Million kitchen he built outside of Seattle.
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XL BGE (#2) & Performer Platinum Former owner: Jambo Backyard, Klose BYC, Lonestar Vertical offset w/ Insulated Firebox, Medium Spicewine, Pitts & Spitts, XL BGE (#1) & (2) Medium BGE's, 22" WSM & (2) 18" WSM's, 18" & 22" Weber Kettles |
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10-01-2011, 03:27 PM | #58 | |
Moderator
Join Date: 09-17-05
Location: Mooresville, NC
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Quote:
http://eater.com/archives/2011/02/17...d-barbecue.php
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XL BGE (#2) & Performer Platinum Former owner: Jambo Backyard, Klose BYC, Lonestar Vertical offset w/ Insulated Firebox, Medium Spicewine, Pitts & Spitts, XL BGE (#1) & (2) Medium BGE's, 22" WSM & (2) 18" WSM's, 18" & 22" Weber Kettles |
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10-01-2011, 05:02 PM | #59 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 06-23-07
Location: North Berwick, ME
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I'm not arguing the theory that seems to have been proven given the data...my statement about the steel mass in my cooker was more to support the idea that the more mass inside a cooker will help it maintain a solid cook temp and out side elements won't affect it's cook temps as severely.
Can we just agree that cooking BBQ is fun and that's why we do it???!!! |
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10-01-2011, 05:29 PM | #60 |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 11-16-06
Location: Chicago suburbs
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I have heard of Myrvold's statement that it is evaporative cooling. But I have never seen his data or his experiments. I have his $625 book set (fantastic stuff) and there is nothing about the stall in there (that I have found yet). But in most good research, it needs to be repeated to be considered valid. Glad we have two physicists on the same page.
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