Inside the Judge's Tent

[TnDrew]

This might be an old thread, but very informative. appreciate it and the Forum.

[tdwalker]

My first read through the original post I did not realize that is was from '04.

As a judge, I took specific note of several items that bothered me greatly ...

1. The judge who would not taste the skin
2. The judges looking for a smoke ring
3. The "unique" presentation of the "devil with horns"
4. Marking down "spicy" food becuase the taste buds don't recover.

I saw that these issues were discussed later in the post, so I guess I'm beating a 7 year old dead horse. This all was really very disappointing to me, and now I see why there is some animosity towards the judges from the cooks.

[deguerre]

Man, this IS an old thread. I'm just wondering why the OP got banned.

[Lake Dogs]

It's a really good write-up, and I think could really benefit rookie teams/cooks to read/see/hear about it.

[SlicksBBQ]

Making the move into the judging tent for me was a huge eye opener. As a cook, I got to see and hear what the judges are looking for.

[big brother smoke]

Originally Posted by deguerre

Man, this IS an old thread. I'm just wondering why the OP got banned.

There are boundaries and rules to follow and they were broken; repeatively!

[Matt_A]

Great write-up! To piggy back on some previous comments, If skin is presented you should at least taste it. Also, be careful you don't get in trouble for breaking the "Fraternization" rule. Judges are not supposed to fraternize with any of the teams on turn-in day. Wandering around and asking questions about techniques, recipes, equipment, etc. is a clear violation of the rule. You could get banned from judging that contest if somebody complained to the KCBS Rep.

If you want to do that, get there the day before and visit with the teams, but be mindful that some might perceive favoritism if you hung out,drank, and maybe even cooked/ate dinner with one team. Perception is a mean, nasty thing.

[PimpSmoke]

The whole post was one that brought too much doubt to the process, and was inflammatory. Please see:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=14263

[GreenDrake]

Great information, thank you for sharing. I would love to judge but I can't seem to get away from wanting to get that elusive GC. I am determined to stay at it until I take home the big one. My chicken has improved substantially, ribs, getting there, butt, on it...brisket, need to keep at it. Granted sometimes it's luck, sometimes it's everything going perfectly for ya. I have only competed for two years and have five walks but that GC is the prize I want more than anything...sometimes I missed it by a few points. Keepin at it. Thanks again for your insight.

[HONCHO GREGORY]

Great post, I would hope that you send this to Kell from BBQ News. I would also hope he would print it.

I see alot of _itchin about judges lately. Do you think it's the judges or the reps that are the root of the judging questions ?

I didn't see this started in 2004, till the last post
but it is an eye opener for sure

[Hub]

Originally Posted by jminion

As a KCBS Reb and after the 22nd a CBJ trainer I only have some comments.

1. The judge that would not eat chicken skin, during his training he was old what KCBS expect him to do. He was instructed to bite off a piece with the meat and chew to judge texture and taste at this point he can remove to his napkin, he does not have to swallow it. By coming to judge he is stating that he is willing to judge what the cook wanted to present.
I would have talk to the judge about what we expect, from there decide if the judge would continue to judge.

2. Not only are the judges told smokering is not to be considered but so are the cooks. When the judges do consider smokering it puts cooks in a tough situation.

As a cook I want to be judged within the rules, just a fair shot. I also understand judges will give smokering points, so I best have it there but it makes the competing harder.

Robert, it was your first time judging and what you found does not surprise me, but it is about giving the cooks the best shot within the rules. As you judge more I hope you will find it different.

Glad to see these corrections here. I'll add one more piece of advice: When judging, you are not juding to your personal tastes, but to how well the meats meet the standards (they are often broad and sometimes vague) -- go to the kcbs site for a copy of the judges CD and read it. Most skilled judges are looking for great BALANCE in the entry. This means no one thing (sauce, smoke, rub, injection, mop, etcl) dominates the flavor but that all combine to produce an exciting blend of great flavor. Combine this will proper texture and good appearance and high scores result.

Welcome to the judging world! It's fun but a very important job. The cooks invest lots of money and time to compete and they deserve only the very best in judging.

[rksylves]

Just a couple of comments.

I wouldn't get too close or too 'chummy' with a team before judging. Strolling by and saying 'good morning' or 'good luck' is fine in my book. Asking about recipes, cook times/temps, etc. is over the line. My rule is to stay out of a team's camp before judging. I can visit and BS afterwards.

Smoke ring is way overblown. I don't judge up or down based on it. I've had product that had no ring at all and it was wonderful, and I've had product that had a huge dark ring that was awful.

Judge the product as presented. Don't take skin off or change the presentation. Take at least one bite the way the team wanted it done. They made the decision and worked their butts off to get it that way, I at least can take one bite the way it was meant.

Why would an entry get DQ'd if it LOOKED LIKE the ribs weren't completely seperated? Appearance phase would NOT be the time to DQ for that reason. When a sample is pulled from the box and it doesn't seperate from the others causing a shortage of samples, THAT would be the time to DQ.

Russ

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by rksylves

Just a couple of comments.

I wouldn't get too close or too 'chummy' with a team before judging. Strolling by and saying 'good morning' or 'good luck' is fine in my book. Asking about recipes, cook times/temps, etc. is over the line. My rule is to stay out of a team's camp before judging. I can visit and BS afterwards.

Smoke ring is way overblown. I don't judge up or down based on it. I've had product that had no ring at all and it was wonderful, and I've had product that had a huge dark ring that was awful.

Judge the product as presented. Don't take skin off or change the presentation. Take at least one bite the way the team wanted it done. They made the decision and worked their butts off to get it that way, I at least can take one bite the way it was meant.

Why would an entry get DQ'd if it LOOKED LIKE the ribs weren't completely seperated? Appearance phase would NOT be the time to DQ for that reason. When a sample is pulled from the box and it doesn't seperate from the others causing a shortage of samples, THAT would be the time to DQ.

Russ

GREAT comments!!!!!!!

[QN]

Originally Posted by rksylves

Why would an entry get DQ'd if it LOOKED LIKE the ribs weren't completely seperated? Appearance phase would NOT be the time to DQ for that reason. When a sample is pulled from the box and it doesn't seperate from the others causing a shortage of samples, THAT would be the time to DQ.
Russ

The rule used to be that there had to be six "separate and identifiable" pieces of meat in the box. If the six ribs were submitted together as one slab then they may not have been able to see six separate ribs. That rule has since been changed to work as you have described. The lack of the required number of samples is not determined until that last judge ends up without anything to judge. Then all six judges are instructed to score it a 1 on appearance. This decision is made by the rep only.

[Boshizzle]

And, there is nothing wrong with holding the meat over the box a couple of seconds in an attempt to let a piece drop back in the box. IMO, the last resort should be a DQ. If the pieces don't drop back in the box, OK a DQ is warranted. But, give them a chance, at least.