Corned Beef Cure help........

[mowin]

5.5 # would require 6.23 g of cure #1 @ 6.25%.

[Pstores]

Yes that’s correct. I was using round numbers. So the question is now. Since I used about 196.7% too much. Is it safe to smoke? Or would you toss it?

[Smoke Dawg]

I consider Mad man the expert in this area.

I would soak it in water changing the water several times and cook a slice to check for how salty it is.

[mowin]

Originally Posted by Smoke Dawg

I consider Mad man the expert in this area.

I would soak it in water changing the water several times and cook a slice to check for how salty it is.

That will help reduce the salt, but not sure it would reduce the cure the meat absorbed. The salt in cure #1 is only added as a carrier so to speak, and to make it easier to measure.

Don't know how to figure out PPM. That would tell you if your in the safe range. Believe the safe amount for a dry cure is 100 ppm, and 200 for a wet cure.

[thirdeye]

I agree you used a recipe calling for way too much pink salt. I would toss it as curing salts should be weighed as accurately as possible (I go by weight), but the point is with pink salt, you don't have much room for error, and we're talking food safety here.

That said I've seen numerous recipes that called for incorrect amounts of pink salt, one in particular referred to it as sodium nitrite (which is the active ingredient), and if a user did happen to purchase it and use it full strength the results could have been disastrous. A message to the publisher and author went unanswered. An entry level product for home curing is Morton's Tender Quick. It was specifically designed for home use and is a tick more forgiving than pink salt.


Here are the two sources to that recipe you posted. It appears the first one used the second as a reference.

https://blog.thermoworks.com/2018/03...s-for-success/

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/...comments-28232

[Pstores]

Ok, I’ll play it safe.... smoke a store bought, toss the good stuff.... Thanks everyone. Glad I lost the recipe link and had to comeback here.

[airedale]

Did you taste it? I just did a small corned beef, simply cut a small piece off and zapped it to cook. It was chewy of course but tasted fine/didn't need to have salt reduced. I used 8 tablespoons of Tender Quick for 8# of brisket.

We did half of it in the Instant Pot for corned beef sandwiches. The other half is in the freezer for smoking/pastrami in a couple of weeks.

[-Chris-]

Originally Posted by Pstores

Ok, I’ll play it safe.... smoke a store bought, toss the good stuff.... Thanks everyone. Glad I lost the recipe link and had to comeback here.

I would eat it, you are not too far off. Recipes have not evolved as quickly as the USDA guidelines, that is all. All smoked and cured food is not good for you, let's be honest. The key is moderation.

Chris

[IamMadMan]

Originally Posted by fantomlord

With a wet (brine) cure, you account for the weight of the water as well, correct? For example, 1000 g of meat + 3000 g of water, you would use 4000g to calculate?

No.....

Wet curing brines are calculated on the amount of water the meat will pick-up while in the brine, usually estimated at a 4% pickup ratio as well as any injected brine.

Using pork immersed for 10 days in 60° SAL brine, with logic and some general estimates one can produce acceptable results. This is much better than copying a recipe from the internet, which in many cases are solely based on what I consider to be the author’s imagination. The actual formulation for a wet cure/cover pickle is a calculated Formula using % pick-up of ppm = lb. nitrite x % pick-up x 1,000,000/lb. pickle.

references - Page 76 - 84
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/con...df?MOD=AJPERES
and
http://www.aamp.com/foodsafety/docum...tive7620-3.pdf


Also here is a good explanation of the process that make it a little more understandable.

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams (quoted below)

Without weighing the meat, the only way to determine % pick-up of cured meat is by an educated guess based on previous experience. It is generally accepted that immersion cured hams (60° SAL) pick-up about 4% weight. If we add 4.2 ounces (120 g) of Cure #1 to 1 gallon of brine, the solution will contain 1973 ppm of sodium nitrite. At first sight it may seem that there is an excessive amount of nitrite in water. The answer is that only a small percentage will be absorbed by meat during the immersion process. At 4% pick-up the ham will absorb 79 ppm which will be just enough for any meaningful curing. At 10% pump (needle pumping) the same ham will contain 197 ppm of sodium nitrite which is in compliance with the government standard of 200 ppm. Pumping more than 10% or increasing the amount of cure in the solution will of course cross the limit.

[IamMadMan]

Originally Posted by thirdeye

I agree you used a recipe calling for way too much pink salt. I would toss it as curing salts should be weighed as accurately as possible (I go by weight), but the point is with pink salt, you don't have much room for error, and we're talking food safety here.

There is just no substitution for accuracy when it come to health and safety of your family when curing meats.

As Thirdeye and many of us have always said, when curing meat; the cure ingredients should be weighed, never measured, for safety, accuracy, and consistency. As indicated there are many questionable recipes on the internet, just because they are there, doesn't imply accuracy or safety of the resulting product.


If you are unable to accurately weigh the ingredients, then you should forego the use of cure #1 and use Morton Tender Quick which has the Salt, Sugar, and Cure #1 combined in a completely bonded product to make the final product equal so the contents do not settle. Because it is completely bonded and it contains the all of the salt, sugar, and curing agent required for curing; it can be safely measured for use in the home with much less accuracy required. Always follow the directions on the Morton Tender Quick package for proper usage.


Getting back to the original amounts.....

5.5 pounds equals 2494.76 grams



so we see that if we do our weight calculations for a 5.5 pound brisket



We see the required amount of cure for 5.5 pounds is 6.25 Grams



when we convert 6.25 Grams to ounces we end up needing .22 ounces of cure #1



We do know that the weight of the cure was not calculated.
So if we look at one purveyors recommended usage for the measure of cure #1, we find the following. ( https://www.americanspice.com/prague...k-curing-salt/ )

"Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lb. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lb. of meat. Mix cure with cold water."
The amount of cure now becomes even more confusing and complicated because they are mixing the cure with water. So now we have to determine if they are building a wet cure or an equilibrium cure because they do not specify the exact amount of water. They are both completely different methods of curing meat.

So the simple solution would be to weigh out the required cure and check the measure. Measuring out 1 level teaspoon of cure #1 several times, I find that I have approx 6.44 - 6.95 grams of Cure #1. I attribute the differences in weight to leveling the teaspoon which might sometimes compress or pack the product in the measuring device; Thus using 1 teaspoon per 5 pounds of meat would be an acceptable measure. Yet we have another source on the internet that lists 1 level tsp of cure #1 at only 5 grams. https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie...alt_per_lb_of/

The OP stated he used 1 Tablespoon of cure #1, which would put the cure at an estimated weight of 15-20 grams vs the required amount of 6.25 grams. He also measures 1 Tablespoon of cure #1 at 12 grams. So again we have so many inconsistencies with measures; I used a reloading scale for it's to accuracy, so;
is there a difference in the weight of cure #1 products? (possibly anti-clumping agents?)
a difference in accuracy of the scales?
or possibly both?

I also saw the online Ruhlman recipe that calls for 4 teaspoons of cure #1, but if you read further you will see he is building a wet cure for his corned beef which is a completely different process than a dry cure or equilibrium cure. http://blog.ruhlman.com/2016/03/homemade-corned-beef/
"In a pot large enough to hold the brisket, combine 1 gallon of water with the kosher salt, sugar, sodium nitrite (if using), garlic, and 2 tablespoons of the pickling spice. Bring to a simmer, stirring until the salt and sugar are dissolved. Remove from the heat and let cool to room temperature, then refrigerate until chilled."

There is just no substitution for accuracy in information and weight when it come to health and safety of your family when curing meats.

We see above so many variances in recipes, measures, products, and suggested usages, which all result in weights that are inconsistent with recommendations. It is best to stick with proven and tested recipes by experts in their craft of curing meat and always use an accurate metric scale to weigh the ingredients.

Again if you are a beginner Morton Tender Quick is an easy to use product that can be measured....


.

[airedale]

Originally Posted by IamMadMan

... If you are unable to accurately weigh the ingredients, then you should forego the use of cure #1 and use Morton Tender Quick which has the Salt, Sugar, and Cure #1 combined in a completely bonded product to make the final product equal so the contents do not settle. Because it is completely bonded and it contains the all of the salt, sugar, and curing agent required for curing; it can be safely measured for use in the home with much less accuracy required. Always follow the directions on the Morton Tender Quick package for proper usage. ...

I am able to accurately weigh cure #1 by trudging to the basement to get my powder scale but I have decided it's not worth the hassle. Tender Quick is cheap, easy, and fast. The TQ recipe is 1/2 oz. per # of meat, easy to measure on an ordinary kitchen scale. No need to accurately measure tiny quantities of cure. I have 8# of TQ buckboard bacon curing in my fridge as we speak. It'll get cold smoked on the Saturday before Easter.

[thirdeye]

Originally Posted by IamMadMan

So the simple solution would be to weigh out the required cure and check the measure. Measuring out 1 level teaspoon of cure #1 several times, I find that I have approx 6.44 - 6.95 grams of Cure #1. I attribute the differences in weight to leveling the teaspoon which might sometimes compress or pack the product in the measuring device; Thus using 1 teaspoon per 5 pounds of meat would be an acceptable measure.

Yet we have another source on the internet that lists 1 level tsp of cure #1 at only 5 grams. https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie...alt_per_lb_of/

The OP stated he used 1 Tablespoon of cure #1, which would put the cure at an estimated weight of 15-20 grams vs the required amount of 6.25 grams. He also measures 1 Tablespoon of cure #1 at 12 grams. So again we have so many inconsistencies with measures; I used a reloading scale for it's to accuracy, so; is there a difference in the weight of cure #1 products? (possibly anti-clumping agents?) a difference in accuracy of the scales?
or possibly both?

Very good information in your post above ^^^. On a side note, and not trying to drive the point of pink salt accuracy (when using both the Prague #1 or #2 products) any farther home... it appears there are inaccuracies in measuring spoons themselves. Look at the reviews below of measuring spoons.

This makes a good point for weighing ingredients which are critical OR for weighing large volumes of ingredients when you want consistency. Some friends make an enormous batch of sausage each year. 600 to 1000 pounds, and it's a very simple recipe for the seasonings: salt, black pepper, white pepper, garlic and Tender Quick (for color only). They measure all the spices by hand but have to recalculate each year because the meat weight changes, and each year the product is slightly different flavorwise. For 5 or 6 years I suggested converting the meat to grams and weighing all the ingredients but "Dad never did that", so why should they. I generally ask for mine in bulk, fry a test pattie and adjust the seasonings as necessary.

http://www.dontwasteyourmoney.com/me...g-spoons-test/

https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/09/...nt-review.html

[thirdeye]

Originally Posted by airedale

I am able to accurately weigh cure #1 by trudging to the basement to get my powder scale but I have decided it's not worth the hassle. Tender Quick is cheap, easy, and fast. The TQ recipe is 1/2 oz. per # of meat, easy to measure on an ordinary kitchen scale. No need to accurately measure tiny quantities of cure. I have 8# of TQ buckboard bacon curing in my fridge as we speak. It'll get cold smoked on the Saturday before Easter.

That is the backbone of the Morton's philosophy when they designed Tender Quick.... If your tablespoon is a little high, or a little shy... you are within an acceptable margin of error. For what it's worth I have both products (TQ and pink salt) and get great results when using in specific recipes.

[SirPorkaLot]

So much good info (and some bad) on this thread.

I’ll just say this.

Always cure by weight, not by volume.


Even our dry brine which contains only sea salt as the active agent has instructions that requires you to weigh the meat.

Get an inexpensive digital kitchen scale that weighs in grams & ounces and always use net weight (minus weight of container)

[airedale]

Originally Posted by thirdeye

That is the backbone of the Morton's philosophy when they designed Tender Quick.... If your tablespoon is a little high, or a little shy... you are within an acceptable margin of error. For what it's worth I have both products (TQ and pink salt) and get great results when using in specific recipes.

Just out of curiosity, when do you not use TQ? I started out my bacon life buying the LEM kits but that phase is over and I am now just using TQ. I recently did a 7# corned beef and just substituted the TQ for the recipe's recommended salt and cure. It turned out great. I am currently doing buckboard bacon using only TQ. What tradeoffs or negatives do you (and IAmMadMan welcome too) see with this approach?