Carryover cooking in clamshell at comps?

rikun · May 24, 2016

Hi there,

Recently we did a competition in Netherlands and were really pushing it with our chicken thighs. We didn't have enough time to get them done, so I cranked up our cookers to about 400F.

Thighs were still only around 145-150 when we pulled them and we just hoped no DQ for raw chicken. We waited for the last minute and pulled them straight to the clamshell. I sampled one and it was tough and leathery like, so clearly not done enough.

We were kinda surprised when we placed 9th out of 65 in chicken. Chicken has always been our weak point previously. My only theory is that the carryover cooking was pretty significant since we cooked so hot and those went straight to the box. Or the judges were really out of it.

Any thoughts? Do you pull early to account for the carryover or do you cook early enough, pull when perfect and vent for a while?

enasnidx · May 24, 2016

I cook until I get the tenderness where I need it. I'll hold as long as needed, vent if necessary, even put back on the smoker just before turn in if needed to warm things up more. I did just read an interesting blog post from Greg Rempe that relates to your chicken turn in:

"Finishing temperatures for chicken range a bit depending on who you ask. USDA says to cook chicken to 165°F, and the majority still go in to the 160s, but Slap Yo' Daddy BBQ, the team that won the year end chicken category for KCBS in 2012, finishes at, hold your breath, 145°F internal! There is an important fact to take note of: Once the 145°F internal temp is reached, it must be held at that temperature for 10 minutes to make it safe. You actually keep the heat on it and hold it there for 10 minutes. This ensures the meat is safe from the "bugs" that might hurt you."

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/chicken_turkey_duck/competition_chicken.html

tduffy · May 24, 2016

In my practice cooks, I build boxes and let them sit for 15 min. before trying them. I've never seen carryover cooking in a box. But I've also never went straight from the cooker to the box as I've never needed to. But I also don't cook chicken to a specific temp, it's cooked to feel just like all other categories. I'm well above the USDA recommended temp for chicken.

Funtimebbq · May 25, 2016

enasnidx said:
I cook until I get the tenderness where I need it. I'll hold as long as needed, vent if necessary, even put back on the smoker just before turn in if needed to warm things up more. I did just read an interesting blog post from Greg Rempe that relates to your chicken turn in:

"Finishing temperatures for chicken range a bit depending on who you ask. USDA says to cook chicken to 165°F, and the majority still go in to the 160s, but Slap Yo' Daddy BBQ, the team that won the year end chicken category for KCBS in 2012, finishes at, hold your breath, 145°F internal! There is an important fact to take note of: Once the 145°F internal temp is reached, it must be held at that temperature for 10 minutes to make it safe. You actually keep the heat on it and hold it there for 10 minutes. This ensures the meat is safe from the "bugs" that might hurt you."

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/chicken_turkey_duck/competition_chicken.html

SYD did finish first in Chicken but it was 2010. I know he has changed his view on temp but that was not the method used when SYD won it's TOY in chicken.

ATucker · May 25, 2016

I have not seen any carryover in the box.

If it is undercooked when I put it in the box...it is still undercooked when the judge gets it

Allen

thirdeye · May 25, 2016

At an event I was judging last season another table received one chicken turn-in that was voluntarily disclosed by the team to a Rep as being "undercooked". This information was withheld until the appearance judging was completed, and it's my understanding pieces from that box never hit the table. In looking at the Rep Handbook, it appears that taste and tenderness scores can still be given. Here is the wording: "The judge should simply be instructed to utilize the definitions on the score card and score accordingly". If this has happened to anyone, how did you determine the taste and tenderness scores?

Bob in Corona · May 25, 2016

Technically, if under cooked and not safe to eat, it's inedible (2).

ATucker · May 26, 2016

ATucker said:
I have not seen any carryover in the box.

If it is undercooked when I put it in the box...it is still undercooked when the judge gets it

Allen

Just to clarify..by undercooked I meant under my preferred target temp not undercooked as in unsafe to eat.

Candy Sue · May 26, 2016

I think you got lucky. Chicken doesn't sit before judging except to get relabeled and that doesn't take very long. Chicken entries don't get shuffled to different trays usually.

TooSaucedToPork · May 26, 2016

thirdeye said:
At an event I was judging last season another table received one chicken turn-in that was voluntarily disclosed by the team to a Rep as being "undercooked". This information was withheld until the appearance judging was completed, and it's my understanding pieces from that box never hit the table. In looking at the Rep Handbook, it appears that taste and tenderness scores can still be given. Here is the wording: "The judge should simply be instructed to utilize the definitions on the score card and score accordingly". If this has happened to anyone, how did you determine the taste and tenderness scores?

In the case of undercooked chicken - I believe the manual states the napkin test be used to determine the color of the juices...clear juices, safe chicken.

rikun · May 29, 2016

Hmm yeah, well this needs further investigating

I'll have to try this at home for sure and see if there's any carryover. I just can't imagine any judge liking thighs cooked to that low IT, at least the one I tasted was really bad texture-wise...

The juices ran clear, which was kinda amazing considering the temp. But then again, the juices can run clear at various temps, it's not really accurate measurement of what is food safe and what isn't. But that's what they use in KCBS, though

Just wondered, our best placing chicken before this has been in the middle of pack and before that we were last in chicken. So yeah, clearly needs more testing before next comp..

Carryover cooking in clamshell at comps?

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