Our Homepage | Donation to Forum Overhead | Welocme | Merchandise | Associations | Purchase Subscription | Amazon Affiliate |
|
Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
|
Thread Tools |
04-19-2011, 08:44 PM | #1 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 06-15-09
Location: Scituate, RI
|
Brisket and Chicken Boxes - Opinions Please
This first box took 2nd place at an approximately 80 team competition last year. the brisket was a Wagyu from Snake River Farms and the rub was my own, Mister Bob's Blue Ribbon Spice Rub. It was injected with 10oz of Butcher's Injection, mixed with water, per the instructions. I used Royal Oak lump charcoal with 3 chunks of cherry added with each chimney while the brisket was in the cooker. I cooked at 275 degrees. The brisket was wrapped at 165 IT and taken to 202 degrees then rested for about 3 hours in the Cambro. The sauce was a beefy brown sauce (secret recipe), mixed with 1/4 cup of the cooking liquid from the brisket. These were the scores:
Appearance: 9,9,8,9,8,9 Taste: 9,9,8,8,9,9 Tenderness: 9,9,9,9,8,9 Here's what it looked like: . This next box was turned in recently at a competition with a few more than 100 competitors. I will withhold the name of the competition because I don't want to give any negative feedback on what I consider to be a great event run by really great people. I just would appreciate some comments on the turn-in and discuss the inconsistency of the judging at many contests lately. This brisket was also a Wagyu from Snake River Farms, approximately the same size as the first. Once again the rub was the same, my own Mister Bob's Blue Ribbon Spice Rub. I injected with the same amount of Butcher's injection, used the same Royal Oak charcoal and cherry chunks. Again I cooked at 275. I wrapped again at 165 and pulled it at 202. The sauce was the identical recipe from the first. The only difference was the burnt ends. These I took from the point, soaked in the sauce and put back in the cooker for about an hour. Last year I just made some cubes from the flat and put them in the box. Here's a picture of the box (please ignore the shadow): . I tasted it and did the pull test. It was in my opinion as good or better in every way than the first one. I'm also a CBJ, and I like to think I know what I'm talking about. The brisket came in 76th overall, these were the scores: Appearance: 9,8,7,7,9,9 Taste: 8,6,6,7,6,8 Tenderness: 8,6,6,8,7,7 This first chicken box is from the same 80 team event last year. They were Bell and Evans air chilled thighs, meticulously trimmed as you can see. I used the 'butter bath' method and the sauce was a mixture of one part each of Blues Hog Original, Blues Hog Tennessee Red and my own sauce. No marination. The chicken was cooked at 275 one hour uncovered and one hour covered. Sauced and put back in for fifteen minutes to set the sauce. This was the box: . It came in 4th overall. These were the scores: Appearance: 9,9,8,8,9,8 Taste: 9,8,9,9,9,8 Tenderness: 8,8,9,8,8,9 So this year, the chicken was once again Bell and Evans. The method was identical, same temperature, same time, same brand margarine (I Can't Believe It's Not Butter) and the sauce was exactly the same mix. I cooked once again at 275, an hour uncovered and an hour covered. Set the sauce for 15 minutes at the end. I believe I did the same careful job of trimming and arranging, you tell me. Here's a picture of the box: . This chicken came in 63rd place. These were the scores: Appearance: 9,9,8,8,9,9 Taste: 8,8,8,6,8,6 Tenderness: 5,7,9,6,8,8 Taste scores from 8 down to 6 can happen, but tenderness from 9 to 5? I'm not a sore loser, I'll take the scores and move on. I'm just a little disappointed and felt the need to vent my frustration, and I'd like to hear some comments.
__________________
Mister Bob, Pitmaster - Smokestack Lightning, Bad Ass Barbecue. KCBS CBJ #31759 - IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller |
|
Thanks from:---> |
04-19-2011, 08:52 PM | #2 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 07-07-08
Location: Goose Creek, SC
|
Mr Bob, you have to remember we are dealing with people and anytime people get involved you are not going to find any real consistancy. I've found that out in our contests hear in SC. While I don't do alot of KCBS contests I feel the same frustration you do at times. Will it get any better....I doubt it. But I enjoy cooking and I understand there will be contests where I will do well and those I won't. It is what it is. Good luck in the future and I hope this won't deter you from future comps.
BTW those are some great looking boxes you put together!!! Doug
__________________
2010 South Carolina State BBQ Champion (SCBA) |
|
04-19-2011, 09:02 PM | #3 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 04-14-04
Location: Choctaw, OK
|
OK, the five to nine on this year's chicken is BS. Wow. Obviously I can't grade anything but appearance, but my wife and I both agreed that both brisket boxes were solid nines and the chicken boxes would go eight or nine. But we're fledgling judges.
Weird.
__________________
Arlin MacRae Primo Oval Junior, Traeger Model 075 Pellet Pooper, Big Chief, Kingfisher Kooker 14" gas/wood combo, PBC Brethren Edition, Pit Boss NASCAR Tailgater Home Brewer, Murderer of Squirrels, Armadillo Inspector Flaming Pig Head Mod Certified KCBS Master BBQ Judge |
|
04-19-2011, 09:18 PM | #4 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
|
Again, this is a VERY good reason for mandatory comment cards for anything under a 6. If a judge is of the opinion that an entry is below average, they'd better be able to articulate in one or two words WHY they think it's below average. I'd also wish for the TC/rep interviewing the judge to find out why they have a 4-point swing away from the table. Then again, with a median of 7.16, maybe the 9 was equally wrong?
On that beautiful, beautiful brisket above, let me relate a story. Shortly after Smokin' Triggers got a 180 in brisket last year, we were at another contest with them. While chatting with Miss Trish, I congratulated them on the achievement, but then said "Let me ask you -- do you know, without a doubt, that that 180 brisket was the best you ever cooked?" Miss Trish immediately replied "Oh hell no!" And that's the way it happens sometimes. Sometimes, you can turn in what you *know* is the best product of your cooking career, and for whatever reason, the judges don't reward it. Other times, we look at each other and say "We're going to need some serious luck in that tent," and yet come away with a high placement. All you can do is keep cooking consistently and go to the next contest, because it shakes out over time.
__________________
. Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url] |
|
04-19-2011, 09:29 PM | #5 | |
Moderator
Join Date: 12-09-04
Location: Wandering, but not lost
Name/Nickname : Captain Ron
|
Quote:
What drives me crazy, however, is that kind of score swing in presentation. I can see a point or two swing, but too many times we've received swings like that on presentation. As an example, at one competition we received the following presentation scores: 999955. How can 6 people look at the exact same box and 4 of them thinks it looks excellent and two of them think it looks below average? That is where i really want a detailed comment card telling me why the box was a 5.
__________________
"Ron Rico, Boss. You can call me Captain Ron..." Naked Fatties Rock! PKGo X 2/PK360/ |
|
|
04-19-2011, 09:50 PM | #6 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 04-14-04
Location: Choctaw, OK
|
I missed part of my point, Ron, sorry. Unless there were seven judges at the table (and I guess there could have been - but with 100+ teams, I doubt it) why was the five counted at all??
__________________
Arlin MacRae Primo Oval Junior, Traeger Model 075 Pellet Pooper, Big Chief, Kingfisher Kooker 14" gas/wood combo, PBC Brethren Edition, Pit Boss NASCAR Tailgater Home Brewer, Murderer of Squirrels, Armadillo Inspector Flaming Pig Head Mod Certified KCBS Master BBQ Judge |
|
04-19-2011, 10:40 PM | #7 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 11-24-09
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
|
Ouch......
This is coming from a human being acting as a judge.
Briz is a 9 (no matter what I've seen that day) Chicken is a 9 unless I've seen some awesome boxes prior to yours, in which case I would mark it an 8. Again...I know this isn't how judges are told to score, but we know that as humans we are flawed and have our own "unwritten rules". You got a raw deal, brother! |
|
04-20-2011, 12:20 AM | #8 |
Found some matches.
Join Date: 09-23-10
Location: SALT LAKE CITY UT
|
I was at the contest Trigg got the 180. Just after turn ins he told me his brisket was burnt! You just never know!
|
|
04-20-2011, 06:24 AM | #9 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-21-09
Location: Marietta, Ohio
|
Quote:
It's just a guess, but the second brisket is glistening much more than the first which MIGHT have been due to more fat? Just a guess, but if it was, it may have started to harden prior to being scored. If that's not the case, I have no idea.. I'd turn in the second brisket entry over the first entry every time assuming everything else to be equal. As far as the chicken, I do like the appearance of the first entry better than the second because of the color. That doesn't explain the difference in tenderness scores.
__________________
4000 sq inch Wood Burner named Brutus - KCSB member/judge# 32129 |
|
|
04-20-2011, 06:48 AM | #10 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 07-03-07
Location: Chandler,OK
|
Last year we cooked in Mississippi and cooked a brisket that was so mushy I was mad at myself for letting this happen. It was so soft and mushy I couldn't keep the slices together. We were set up right beside Mr. Trigg and he tried it and said that was crap ( nice to hear that when your already upset, but the truth). We ended up getting 2nd. Trigg and I laughed about it for 5 minutes after the awards.
|
|
04-20-2011, 07:23 AM | #11 |
On the road to being a farker
Join Date: 01-24-11
Location: Imperial, MO
|
please please please can we some how get the KCBS to have their judges fill out comment cards....i believe it would offer a ton of help if not at least narrow your focus of anger
|
|
04-20-2011, 07:35 AM | #12 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 01-03-11
Location: Smithfield, North Carolina
|
At the judging class I attended, we were instructed to fill out comment cards only if we could give constructive criticism that would help the cook in the future.
__________________
Fired Up Smokers KCBS Team, Smokey W's Pit Que NCPC Team / 2011 NCPC Whole Hog State Champion |
|
04-20-2011, 08:03 AM | #13 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 09-02-08
Location: Pittsfield Il
|
I feel your pain..Last 2 contests in the St louis area our chicken was 175 and first place, next contest 155 26th and it was exactly the same chicken.Both times the best I ever turned in.
|
|
04-20-2011, 08:22 AM | #14 | |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 05-29-08
Location: Fairborn, Ohio
|
Quote:
When someone invents a computer that smells, tastes and see's we'll have some consistant results. Until then it is what it is.
__________________
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]JayAre-B-Q [/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Stumps Original 223 W/Stoker[/FONT] |
|
|
04-20-2011, 08:28 AM | #15 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-21-09
Location: Marietta, Ohio
|
Ahh yea.. that's a problem.. You are not judging against the other entries. All entries are to be judged against the standard.. not each other.
A 9 is a 9 regardless of what the previous entries looked like.
__________________
4000 sq inch Wood Burner named Brutus - KCSB member/judge# 32129 |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Need opinions on chicken. | Bpig | Q-talk | 6 | 09-01-2011 02:19 PM |
opinions on whole brisket or flats... | Homebrewed Q | Competition BBQ | 28 | 01-20-2011 09:37 PM |
First brisket, opinions on appearance | WeekendsAreMine | Q-talk | 6 | 10-25-2010 10:16 AM |
Opinions on my saturday chicken please | Just Pulin' Pork | Q-talk | 10 | 03-23-2008 09:38 AM |
Your Opinions on Brisket Temp | Bill-Chicago | Q-talk | 42 | 11-06-2007 04:38 PM |
Thread Tools | |
|
|