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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 11-01-2016, 06:03 PM   #1
Smoking Piney
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Default Why very sweet ribs?

I'm posting this here because I started to derail a thread in the Q Talk section about Parkay on ribs in comps.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=238542

Qualification: I'm not a comp cooker, but I'm curious.

Questions: How did judging evolve to focus on very sweet tasting ribs? Is that even a trend with judges? Isn't tangy, savory, spiced in other interesting ways and still tasting the meat a positive factor?

KCBS seems to be a controlling body in most judging. Is this how they train their judges........."deep red shine like a new car and be sweet with a little back end heat"?

I understand you folks have to cook for the judges, and it's a look and one bite. You folks have my utmost respect. I'm just curious at what seems to be a large divide between what the judges want to see and taste vs what us backyard cooks like and would serve to please friends and family.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:54 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoking Piney View Post

Qualification: I'm not a comp cooker, but I'm curious.

Questions: How did judging evolve to focus on very sweet tasting ribs? Is that even a trend with judges? Isn't tangy, savory, spiced in other interesting ways and still tasting the meat a positive factor?

KCBS seems to be a controlling body in most judging. Is this how they train their judges........."deep red shine like a new car and be sweet with a little back end heat"?
I'm assuming it evolved to somewhat sweet because that's the least offensive to most people and your trying to please 6 complete strangers and not the 6 people in your backyard. Tangy or "spiced in other interesting" ways is more likely to offend 1 or more out of the 6 than sweet. I've done quite well in the past at comps with savory and the ribs I turn in now aren't "very sweet" or candyish, they're balanced (sweet, heat and other flavors) and you can still taste the meat. I think if you add too much and overwhelm the meat, which you can just as easily do with tangy or interesting spices, you're doomed to low taste scores. The sweet is there, but it's not overwhelming.

As for KCBS training the judges, a friend went through the judging class this year, they don't tell you what to look for regarding color or taste. They offer guidelines, but red and sweet aren't really among those guidelines. Honestly, I don't get the appeal of overly red ribs, I find brown ribs to be more appealing.
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:32 PM   #3
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After taking the Gateway Drum class this year I moved away from really sweet ribs to a much more balanced recipe, and we've had much better results.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:06 PM   #4
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^^^^
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:41 PM   #5
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I think the sweet notion rumor keeps getting spread from those that haven't tried a bunch of teams ribs. The new gen stuff (from the last few years) that I've tasted aren't overly sweet. Ours are more savory/balanced flavors (though we haven't competed as much the last 2 years).

I still think the first season of pitmasters (which is awesome) did lend a good bit to the "sweet rap" that most people think is true because they caught a few sound bites from the contestants.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:43 PM   #6
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To be fair, even "balanced" comp ribs are a good deal sweeter than most restaurant/backyard ribs, at least here in Texas.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:58 PM   #7
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Old 11-01-2016, 09:08 PM   #8
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We use plenty of kayro, honey, brown sugar, turbinado in our rib program, but the end result isn't overly sweet at all. Keep the sauce a thin glaze and it compliments the sweet pork flavor rather than cover it up.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shares View Post
We use plenty of kayro, honey, brown sugar, turbinado in our rib program, but the end result isn't overly sweet at all. Keep the sauce a thin glaze and it compliments the sweet pork flavor rather than cover it up.
Same here, we use a very sweet wrap, but the rub and sauce we use aren't overly sweet. I'd say our recipe trends a little to the savory side more so than sweet.
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:15 AM   #10
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The best advice I got for doing peoples choice ribs at a contest was "if you think your ribs are too sweet, add some more sugar". Now my ribs have sugar in the rub, Karo and molasses in the sauce. It makes my teeth hurt just making them. Last contest 3 weeks ago, I cooked 20 racks of ribs and got 1st place peoples choice ribs . Somebody likes them sweet but not me.
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:09 AM   #11
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Comp ribs are probably sweeter than what people cook in their backyards but overall I don't necessarily agree that they are overly sweet. It takes more than just sweet to win.
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Old 11-02-2016, 05:11 PM   #12
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I want a good bite of tender, juicy, smoky pork. Sweet or savory, I don't much care, although I agree that an even balance of the two is usually best.

If I have to work to gnaw some miserly morsel of meat off the bone, that's not a good sign. Too many of the ribs that I see in competition are cut thin and look dry or even burnt. If they look dry, they usually are dry.

Not sure I've seen many red ribs. At contests around Kansas City, the popular color lately has been Blues Hog dark.
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:17 AM   #13
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Certain trends go through phases. The candy bar rib was really big a few years ago, but I think the trend is turning toward more savory and complex flavors. I figure it's the same thing as muffin-tin chicken. Lots of folks started doing it after picking it up from other people out on the barbecue trail, but it's rare to see now.

There is another reason sweeter entries tend to do well in competitions, though. If you look into the taste tests between Coke and Pepsi that Pepsi ran in the 80s, most folks seemed to prefer Pepsi. However, it's always based on that first sip. Researchers have actually gone back and studied this reaction and have found that the more participants drank, the more they preferred Coke to Pepsi because Pepsi is a sweeter product, but that initial sip, we prefer the sweetness. Something to do with how we're programmed to seek out calorie-dense foods, but you can find plenty of info on it if you're interested with some Googling.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:48 AM   #14
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Food science stuff - sweet/sugary foods release the neurotransmitter dopamine, which tells the body this is good/pleasurable. Add in the psychology sweet/sugary foods are typically one in your memories about pleasurable/good memories ie - reward for good behavior is candy growing up, life milestones such as birthdays, graduations, marriage have some sort of cake/pastry/sweets.

Then add in the typical American diet which is more than 100+ grams of sugar a day, sweet is now the norm. Now when cooking for 6 judges to really make your flavors pop for 1 bite you have to really over exaggerate the flavors. Which is why ribs have turned more "candy" style. I see cooks here saying they use Karo, honey, brown sugar, turbinado sugar on their ribs, but their ribs aren't "overly" sweet. Ask anyone that regulates their sugar intake to the recommended 25grams (6tsp) a day to try a competition rib as described above and they will say the ribs are super sweet/candied. Give it to someone that takes in more than 100grams of sugar a day, and the ribs are just slightly above their "sweet/sugary" tastes and are wow'd by the flavors.

The "overly" sweet concept is very subjective. Over the last 5 months I have avoided added sugar foods. I typically eat lots of whole foods and when I want something sweet I eat fruit. Now whenever I eat a piece of cake, a piece of candy, or even drink a soda. I can only take in a little bit of it because they have massive amounts of sugar in it and I can taste every bit of it. A soda, cookie, cake are all typically very cloyingly sweet too me. A lot of the commercial rubs and sauces used in competition BBQ I find too sweet for me even though my fiance and friends think it is fine. This is why when cooking at home I actually make my own rubs and sauces where I can control the amount of sugars and control the flavors more.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:23 PM   #15
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^^Excellent point aawa. I'm glad I found this thread. I thought I might be one of the few trying to comprehend this trend. Case in point: At my 9 year old son's request, we did our first comp last year. I prefer good smoke over sweetness. We didn't place, but got to try the first place winner's ribs. They were shiny like candy, very tender and very sweet, but tasted like zero smoke touched them. So I learned that it's not what you like that wins comps, but it's what wins comps that wins comps. The BEST part of the whole experience was seeing a comment card that one judge left for me. It read: "9.5/10 - Best ribs I had all day. Great smoke and flavor." That guy understood my flavor style.
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