Poll Regarding Comment Cards - Please Vote

[Ford]

Originally Posted by Stoke&Smoke

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but that's a bit of a pet peeve to me. Before we started competing, my wife and I judged, and both of us had times when we were given cold meat. I don't mean room temp, I mean refrigerated cold.

The rules say "

After cooking, all meat

:

Must be held at 140° F or above

OR

Cooked meat shall be cooled as follows:
Within 2 hours from 140° F to 70° F and
Within 4 hours from 70° F to 41° F or less
h. Meat that is cooked, properly cooled, and later
reheated for hot holding and serving shall be reheated
so that all parts of the food reach a temperature of at

least 165° F for a minimum of 15 seconds.

I would say if I'm served cold meat as a judge, this rule has been violated.


I voted yes as, even though I agree with Ford that the comments are usually useless, I think low scores should be somehow explained.

Once the meat gets to 140 you either need to reheat or cool to 70 within 2 hours. Pork as an example, can be hot and steaming when it's being pulled but will cool to 100 or so within minutes after pulling. Adding hot sauce helps to get it back up a bit. So maybe it's 120 and it's in a box that is sitting in say 60F air temp. It will again start cooling. So within the 20 minutes between starting to pull and the judge eating it it's cold or at least room temp and that tastes cold.

Now it's possible some cooks get their stuff done real early and cool it. that's legal and they don't have to reheat before turning in. Nothing in the rules requires that. Doubt it scores well but it's legal.

[Bentley]

Originally Posted by Divemaster

And I think the box looks better when it is full rather than just the minimum amount too...

And does that effect the way you score? I like less in a box.

[Divemaster]

Originally Posted by Divemaster

And I think the box looks better when it is full rather than just the minimum amount too...

Originally Posted by Bentley

And does that effect the way you score? I like less in a box.

Actually, my scores have been higher and more consistent.

[G$]

Originally Posted by Diva

Voted No. This is the kinda crap that's usually on the cards. We received one that said: Did you use Dr. Pepper on your brisket? I don't like Dr. Pepper. WTF??

Your picture was of a 9 9 9 card. This poll is about 5s.

The Dr. Pepper comment is interesting. Could be valuable or not, depending on what you do with it.

[Lake Dogs]

Originally Posted by MoKanMeathead

Voted NO. If you require comment cards there will be some judges score within the range that doesn't require a card just so they don't have to fill one out. Also, every comment card I have seen was pretty much a joke.

Truth is, IF they do this (as you suggested above) they shouldn't be
judging in the first place. I know I dont want a judge having the honor
of sampling my BBQ if he/she isn't willing to give feedback. Whether I
dismiss their opinion or not is my choice, but them providing feedback
should not be optional, IMHO.

Diva, DO YOU USE Dr. Pepper? LMAO. Seriously, at least you knew that
the judge (in this case) was a dip stick. Glad he/she gave you a comment.

[Diva]

Originally Posted by G$

Your picture was of a 9 9 9 card. This poll is about 5s.

The Dr. Pepper comment is interesting. Could be valuable or not, depending on what you do with it.

I understand that. We've also received a card where had a 5 in tenderness and the statement was that they were tender but a little too sweet.

My point: They're not informative. Especially when you get (which we ALL hope to get ) all 9's and 8's and the one person who gives you a 5 doesn't REALLY tell you why you received that score. The cards we've received haven't been helpful at all.

p.s. We don't use soda on anything

[Bentley]

Originally Posted by Divemaster

Actually, my scores have been higher and more consistent.

That was not the question, does your bias for more meat meat in a box effect your judging of the box?

I know when I see a very full box, I have to check myself because I do have a bias and say there in no reason to score down for this, its not Rocket Science, but I think many just blow their biases off and score the way they want and not the way they are trained.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Diva

I understand that. We've also received a card where had a 5 in tenderness and the statement was that they were tender but a little too sweet.

My point: They're not informative. Especially when you get (which we ALL hope to get ) all 9's and 8's and the one person who gives you a 5 doesn't REALLY tell you why you received that score. The cards we've received haven't been helpful at all.

p.s. We don't use soda on anything

That's OK.. I've received one that said my food tasted like lighter fluid... for those that don't know me, I use pellets. Granted I use a MAPP torch to light it, I don't use lighter fluid... Let's face it. Some of these judges are on crack. I haven't voted (thought I did). But I am voting no as well.

[Scottie]

who got this? I remember this happening... lol

Originally Posted by Diva

Voted No. This is the kinda crap that's usually on the cards. We received one that said: Did you use Dr. Pepper on your brisket? I don't like Dr. Pepper. WTF??

[The_Kapn]

I have been back and forth about comment cards.

FBA requires a comment on the back of the score card for anything below "average". The team can then ask for the comments if they ask the REP before midnight.
Maybe it helps, maybe not.
Depends on what you think is "average".

I think the comment card may be a good deal and can help sometimes, but the real problem is that (we) judges are not statistically tracked from event to event.

Even as seldom as I judge, I recognize the Judges who are "BBQ Experts" and score teams accordingly if the team does not meet their glorified expectations.
Other Judges feel the teams have worked so hard and spent so much money that we need to give them "big" scores as a reward for their effort.

As a cook, I don't want either type of "Judge" scoring me.
As a Judge, I do not want to be either type.
I want to be objective and accurate.

With the computer power we have now, there is no reason in the world that all scores could not be tracked to the judge and compared to the others.

I know if I am "out of range" either high or low, I want to know about it so I can calibrate my scores to the norm.

I was a ladies gymnastic Judge in years past.
Great system where each Judge had to be "in range" with the head judge or a conference was called to figure it out.
It would never work for BBQ, but the concept of "in range" is valid, IMHO.

Guess I wandered off topic, but that is how I see the answer to the origonal question.

TIM

[Smokedelic]

Originally Posted by Diva

My point: They're not informative. Especially when you get (which we ALL hope to get ) all 9's and 8's and the one person who gives you a 5 doesn't REALLY tell you why you received that score. The cards we've received haven't been helpful at all.

Bingo.

What good does a comment card do from a judge who gave you 5s and 6s when the rest of the table gave you 8s and 9s, even if it provides a detailed explanation? Is their feedback really going to affect how you cook when the rest of the table obviously liked your entry? The answer is no, it won't.

A cook who is new, or who cooks only a couple times a year could possibly benefit from a comment card, but they'd probably get more information and better feedback giving a sample of their stuff to their neighbor at a contest and asking for feedback. A more "seasoned" cook is probably going to dismiss any comment from a single judge for a low score as the judges fault, or a rogue score.

The only time I see comment cards being beneficial is if the majority of the judges at a table score an entry down, they all fill out comment cards, and the comment cards all reflect the same issue. Short of that, I think they are a waste of everyone's time.

[Candy Sue]

Originally Posted by Ford

Once the meat gets to 140 you either need to reheat or cool to 70 within 2 hours. Pork as an example, can be hot and steaming when it's being pulled but will cool to 100 or so within minutes after pulling. Adding hot sauce helps to get it back up a bit. So maybe it's 120 and it's in a box that is sitting in say 60F air temp. It will again start cooling. So within the 20 minutes between starting to pull and the judge eating it it's cold or at least room temp and that tastes cold.

Now it's possible some cooks get their stuff done real early and cool it. that's legal and they don't have to reheat before turning in. Nothing in the rules requires that. Doubt it scores well but it's legal.
[/LEFT]

Look at rule 17(h), which says:

"Meat that is cooked, properly cooled (see 17(g)), and later reheated for hot holding and serving shall be reheated so that all parts of the food reach a temperature of at least 165º F for a minimum of 15 seconds."

IN MY OPINION, this means that if you finish your brisket or pork off early it should be reheated to proper temperature before serving to judges. Pork should, of course, be heated in its entirety and not parted.

-------------

The above is my opinion only and not reflective of KCBS or anyone else.

[Mister Bob]

I agree with Smokedelic. Comment cards only makes sense if all judges provide comments for all scores.

But the comments have to be constructive and on point. Maybe a multiple choice type questionnaire could be developed. While appearance, taste and tenderness can be somewhat subjective, there should be objective criteria used in the judgement.

Appearance can be neat, sloppy, symmetrical, dull, glossy, too full, too empty, great color...

Taste can be salty, spicy, sweet, sour, hot, bland, perfectly balanced...

Tenderness can be over done, under done, mushy, perfectly done...

I'm sure a think tank could come up with many more choices, and a judge could select all that apply. Then at least the feedback would be useful.

[Finney]

I still say comments for all scores. If I spend 8+ hours cooking... they can give me half a minute to give me feed back.

[Dale P]

I voted no. If we turn in something too salty, we already know.
If a judge scores us low when we think our food was excellent, that card wont change our minds. I think they are useless.