Poll Regarding Comment Cards - Please Vote

Do you think a judge should be required to submit a comment card for any score they give that is low


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Vince RnQ

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Anyone who has done more than a handful of competitions has probably received a pretty harsh score or two from the judges on one of their entries. It's never fun to see a 5, a 4 or even lower on your score sheet but it stings even more when you don't get any kind of explanation as to why that score was given.

I have long held that if a judge gives a score lower than a 6, a comment card should be required from that judge. The argument against this idea has always been that if a judge is required to explain themselves, they'll simply not score lower than a 6 which will unfairly alter the true results. I think that is complete hogwash.

The teams hang it all out there every time they turn in a box and if a judge thinks it is deserving of a low score they should be able to articulate their reasoning without any difficulty. There are a myriad of valid reasons for low scores including but not limited to poor texture, over-seasoning, under-seasoning, over-smoked, etc. A straightforward comment would make it very clear to the team what that judge thought should change in order to improve the score. No drama, no disrespect, just a simple explanation for the score.

All a team really wants to know from a judge when they get a low score is "why did you think it deserved that score?" Until KCBS begins to require this simple level of accountability from the judges, don't expect many comment cards on those low scores.

Please take a moment to cast a vote in this poll.

Thanks!
 
I voted yes as any information from the judges would be better than no information at all.
I mean if I can get a bit of constructive critisism is better than being left clueless.
Kind of like your kid going to school and you have no conferences or a report card for your childs progress.
They just flunked your kid w/o any explanation.
 
Ford, I was going to agree with your point, but Vince added that there could even be some simple, stock reason codes, thta allow quick expansion. Knowing your 5 rated pork was "poor texture: mushy" can't hurt. Likewise, if it said "Taste issue: too Salty". These simple comments would help our results, and WE could decoide what might have gone wrong, did one judge get an outlier, do we have a trend, etc.

I want to clarify the 'cut off mark'. 5 would be plausinble to me. I would not expect comments on 6s. This would not create a ton of extra work, and i don't think this would dis-incent fair judging.

One other thing: I'd collect a lot of comment cards. :icon_blush:
 
Voted No.

I am a firm beliver in comment cards, filled out several at Tom's Farm contest. Fairly detailed ones. Much like I dont think you can legislate morality, I do not think you can force someone to comment on their score. I have over 20 contests under my belt...I would venture to guess that any judge that has over ten is going to fill one out if they give below a six, I know I sure owe it to the team, and I expect it when I compete. So you mandate a comment card and they end up writing on it, "this was not good"...What is the Rep to do? Does he now demand a more detailed explaination? Good luck with that one...

The inexperienced judge, whether CBJ or not probably could not articulate why they gave it the score they did any way, they are not trained enough yet.

If you want to effect a change, start having KCBS concentrate on contuning education, if it cost me and extra $25 a year to be a CBJ so be it...I have to do it to keep my Insurance licence active. And if folks throw the argument in my face that that will drive judges away...Hey, come on now, which judges do you think it will drive away? The lazy ones, the ones that arent really into it, and give a 4 without a comment card, and dont we wanna get rid of those Wanker's anyway?
 
Voted No.

If you want to effect a change, start having KCBS concentrate on contuning education,


Not to hijack this thread but just what would be included in the continued education of current judges? :confused:
 
My favorite comment cards are the ones where they say they scored you down for some issue that KCBS rules says they aren't supposed to judge on, like food temp.
 
Ford, I was going to agree with your point, but Vince added that there could even be some simple, stock reason codes, thta allow quick expansion. Knowing your 5 rated pork was "poor texture: mushy" can't hurt. Likewise, if it said "Taste issue: too Salty". These simple comments would help our results, and WE could decoide what might have gone wrong, did one judge get an outlier, do we have a trend, etc.

I want to clarify the 'cut off mark'. 5 would be plausinble to me. I would not expect comments on 6s. This would not create a ton of extra work, and i don't think this would dis-incent fair judging.

One other thing: I'd collect a lot of comment cards. :icon_blush:
OK but when you get 5 8's or 9's on taste and 1 5 then what good is the comment to you. too salty for one judge but fine for the others is no valid input just one rogue judge.
 
I welcome the comment cards for the most part...some are even downright hilarious...like the one I got that said I forgot to remove the membrane from my pork butt...true story! :becky:
 
Not to hijack this thread but just what would be included in the continued education of current judges? :confused:


I guess maybe an advanced class. You have that basics out of the way, you now know to look out for the Evil Carrot tops & Red tipped lettuce.

Maybe we could progress into what properly cook meat is, subjective, somewhat, but not really in my mind. If we give you a piece of chicken, rib, pork and brisket. One has been cooked to 155°, one has been cooked to 195° and one has been cooked to 220°, (might have to make an adjustment on temperatures with chicken), do we as experienced cooks think they will all be the same? I bet the guy giving 4’s think they are.

Taste, harder, you will probably need someone with better SAT’s then me for that, but I bet it could be done…

Appearance…well, we already covered that in class one!
 
Voted Yes. I've recently left KCBS dominant territory and moved back to Texas.

If you currently think your comment cards are worthless, try getting 0 feedback at almost all competitions in the state. Especially if your a relatively new team trying to figure things out.
 
I'm going to agree on getting the cards for the most part. If a card says that your food tastes bad with no explanation, just toss the card in the trash along with the judge that wrote it. If the card says something like "all I can taste is salt" then at least you've got an idea of why he gave you a chit score.
Now for the two points against forced cards. First, if a card is required on a 5 or lower, you're going to see a lot of 6's & nothing lower. Second (and more important) is the judge who looks you dead in the eye & says "Don't be upset --- a 6 is average according to KCBS". If you look at the scoring card it says right there 6 Average, but it doesn't say average of "what". Is it the average of all of the BBQ that you've ever eaten? The average of BBQ restaraunt food? The average of your typical comp entry? The average of the "world's best boiled / BBQ ribs" that your neighbor makes?
Maybe there should be some continueing education classes offered / required for judges. I'd take a class every once in a while if it would help me to be a better judge. By the way, I'm a Master CBJ who judges between 12 & 15 contests a year.
 
The KCBS reps should talk to a judge that gives a 4 or lower and doesn't fill out a comment card and possibly ask them if they would like to fill out a card. After all, the reps see the scores while entering them into the system, so they know when low scores are given out. The only downside to this, especially in large contests, is that during the time it takes to enter scores into the system, it may be too late as the next category may already be at the table. So maybe this responsibilty should fall to the table captains. They look at the score sheets to be sure they are filled out correctly, how much more of a problem would it be to scan the scores looking for 4's or lower and ask that judge if they would like to fill out a card. Present it as an option, not a requirement, and I think we would still see accurate scoring.
 
Mandatory cards for a certain score will never wash. Most of my fellow judges are good conscientious people who enjoy the past time of BBQ. The rest are a bunch of dicks who just show up. I have used comment cards and often see others at my tables doing so also. The dicks won't, "how dare you question my judging"....
I too would'nt shy away from continuing training, but what would you have me trained to do? I have been judging for 5 years, hope to become a master judge this year at the Jack. I cook at least once a year (I am a award winner!!!!) granted I don't know it all but I got a pretty good start.
If KCBS really wants to get after the odd scores (like they are posed to do this year) I think the only place to start is indeed the table captain. He sees the odd score and should point it out to the rep who immediatly should go and request the judge to create a comment card.
Ed
 
I always fill out a comment card when I rate anything 6 or below AND fill one out when I give a 9. This is a courtesy to the cooks and, since I cook too, I know it is appreciated. However, it can be cumbersome to make it a requirement. If you are at the last table in the rotation you often have minimal time between meats. Also, some judges who may have great taste and judging skills are not good at writing. Let's keep it optional.
 
OK but when you get 5 8's or 9's on taste and 1 5 then what good is the comment to you. too salty for one judge but fine for the others is no valid input just one rogue judge.

And that is not worth knowing?

Better to know that than wonder if one of your chicken skins somehow got rubbery, etc.
 
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