Too low, too slow?

StanDaMan79

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A friend was telling me about the lunch this little local place serves, so I went up there to try it out. I had the Cubano, had heard about but never tried one. it was excellent, and since my buddy is friends with the owner, I asked her how she seasons and cooks it.

Here is my question. She says she cooks the pork butt in her oven at low, for 24 to 27 hours. She said the temp is 140. Thats where the question lies.

All other concerns aside, will pork pull cooked at this temp. i don't think it would. I think her oven must be hotter then she thinks.
The pork was tender, and no, I didn't get sick. She told me the cook temp after I ate it, Lol.

Opinions? Will it pull if it was cooked at 140, or his her oven running hotter then she thinks. Thanks for the help.
 
I did a quick google search and found this amongst article in The Guardian from 2011.


It is a momentous day in meat cookery: the US Department of Agriculture has lowered the recommended minimum cooking temperature of pork by 15 degrees Fahrenheit (9.5C)...
So pork may now be lawfully cooked In the United States at 145F (62C), the same temperature as whole cuts of beef and lamb. That's 20F less than poultry, which must still be cooked to 165F (74C).
Another US body, the Food and Drug Administration suggests even lower cooking temperatures if combined with longer cooking periods for baked and roasted meats: 130F (54C) for over 112 minutes, or 140F (60 degrees C) for over 12 minutes.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/may/25/pork-cooking-temperatures-lowered


It seems perfectly ok to cook at that temperature as long as the internal temperature hits the "right mark" for the proscribed time and that sounds feasible if she is cooking them for over 20 hours.

I would never do it but there you go...
 
I supposed anything is possible, but I seriously doubt that the result will be pullable, or even tender. When we cook butts we are typically taking them to 190+ degrees to get them pullable. Physics will tell you that it is impossible to heat something to 190 when the cook temperature is 140. The meat will never get above 140.

Now, it is possible that enough time at 140 will render the fat and connective tissues enough to get a decent product, but I'm not willing to test that out :-D
 
It's got to be Celsius...
No, at 285F for 24-27 hours you'd have pork cracklin's or something. Definitely not tender meat.

Her oven has to be running hotter. A butt will cook to buttery tender in about 24 hours at 200F. I did one in my oven once that low.
 
Maybe she's cooking it at a completely different temperature and then HOLDING it at 140 over a 24 hour period of time? Otherwise I don't know how she's getting tender, eatable pork.:shock:
 
No, at 285F for 24-27 hours you'd have pork cracklin's or something. Definitely not tender meat.

Her oven has to be running hotter. A butt will cook to buttery tender in about 24 hours at 200F. I did one in my oven once that low.
I believe I read that Tuffy Stone cooks his pork at 200 for 24 hours at his restaurant.:-D
 
It seems perfectly ok to cook at that temperature as long as the internal temperature hits the "right mark" for the proscribed time and that sounds feasible if she is cooking them for over 20 hours.

I would never do it but there you go...

Not at all OK and that's not opinion. If the oven is truly 140°F the meat will never reach 145°F. It's simply not possible.

At less than 140°F bacteria will not be killed but can multiply. The guideline (USDA?) is to get the meat from 40°F to 140°F in less than 4 hours. 20 hours at 140°F would risk turning this into a science experiment.

She either meant 140°C, 240°F or simply didn't want to share her process.
 
Not to mention that if you're only cooking at 140F, not only will the meat never reach safe temperature, but it will spend hours and hours in the danger zone. It'll be happy bacteria time, with no cleansing with fire period at the end.
 
I'd say it is absolutely possible providing that the pork is well sealed tightly in a roaster. When you think about it it is not much different then using an immersion circulator for sueV. The pork will stew in it own juices as long as there is moisture present braising will continue and the more moisture the the higher the efficiency.
 
LOL....NO it's not possible nor is a good idea.

It would never get to the temp needed for collagen break down.
 
I'd say it is absolutely possible providing that the pork is well sealed tightly in a roaster. When you think about it it is not much different then using an immersion circulator for sueV. The pork will stew in it own juices as long as there is moisture present braising will continue and the more moisture the the higher the efficiency.

This right here is the truth. Soude Vide cooking is much different than regular cooking. The food safe temperatures also adjust with the length of time being held at a lower temperature. I can't say for sure if that is what she is doing or if it is safe. However you can cook pork at 140 degrees safely and where it is not completely dried out.
 
except that in the OP, he said the lady said she cooked it in an oven.
 
This right here is the truth. Soude Vide cooking is much different than regular cooking. The food safe temperatures also adjust with the length of time being held at a lower temperature. I can't say for sure if that is what she is doing or if it is safe. However you can cook pork at 140 degrees safely and where it is not completely dried out.

Except connective tissue isn't gonna break down @ 140* ...don't care if it's been there for a week.

Someone can feel free to try it and prove me wrong but it won't happen till the 160's me thinking....also like stated it was in the oven not sous vide
 
Except connective tissue isn't gonna break down @ 140* ...don't care if it's been there for a week.

Someone can feel free to try it and prove me wrong but it won't happen till the 160's me thinking....also like stated it was in the oven not sous vide


if this site is correct, you are correct, 160....

http://www.scienceofcooking.com/meat/slow_cooking1.htm


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]COOKING MEAT TEMPERATURES[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]105F/40C - 122F/50C[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] --Calpains begin to denature and lose activity till around 105F, cathepsains at 122F. Since enzyme activity increases up to those temperatures, slow cooking can provide a significant aging effect during cooking. Meat should however be quickly seared or blanched first to kill surface microbes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]120°F/50°C -- Meat develops a white opacity as heat sensitive myosin denatures. Coagulation produces large enough clumps to scatter light. Red meat turns pink.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rare Meats: 120°F/50°Cis the early stages of juiciness in meats as the the protein myosin, begins to coagulate . This lends each cell some solidity and the meat some firmness. As the myosin molecules bond to each other they begin to squeeze out water molecules that separated them. Water then collects around the solidifyed protein core and is squeezed out of the cell by connective tissue. At this temperature meat is considered rare and when sliced juices will break through weak spots in the connective tissue [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]140°F/60°C -- Red myoglobin begins to denature into tan colored hemichrome. Meat turns from pink to brown-grey color.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]140°F/60°C -- Meat suddely releases lots of juice, shrinks noticebly, and becomes chewy as a result of collagen denaturing which squeezes out liquids.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Medium -- Well Meats: Collagen shrinks as the meat tmeperature rises to 140/60 more of the protein coagulates and cells become more seggregated into a solid core and surrounding liquid as the meat gets progressively firmer and moister. At 140-150 the meat suddenly releases lots of juices, shrinks noticeably and becomes chewier as a result of collagen shrinkage. Meat served at this temperature is considered medium and begins to change from juicy to dry. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]160°F/70°C[/FONT] -- [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Connective tissue collagen begins to dissolve to gelatin. Melting of collagen starts to accelerate at 160F and continues rapidly up to 180F. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Well Done Slow Cooked Meats: Falling apart tenderness collagen turns to gelatin at 160/70. The meat gets dryer, but at 160F the connective tissues containing collagen begins to dissolve into gelatin. With time muscle fibers that had been held tightly together begin to easily spread apart. Although the fibers are still very stiff and dry the meat appears more tender since the gelatins provide succulence. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NOTES[/FONT]: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]At 140°F changes are caused by the denaturing of collagen in the cells. Meat served at this temperature med-rare is changing from juicy to dry. At 160°F/ 70°C connective tissue collagen begins to dissolve to gelatin. This however is a very lengthy process. The fibers are still stiff and dry but meat seems more tender. Source: Harold McGee -- On Food and Cooking [/FONT]
 
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