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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 08-20-2008, 12:47 PM   #121
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BBQSMYBFF

Dude.....it all begins with you......consistent product, consistent flavor profile......

I'm not bragging, just giving you the facts.......the last 10 competitions that I've competed in.......seven 1sts in brisket, one 2nd in brisket, one 10th in brisket, one out of the top 10 because I changed a process that kept my product from being consistent, and I knew it was not right for a good placing......the contests were contests that were 100% certified judges, a mix of ceritfied and celebrity judges, and some that had all celebrity judges.
I did not hit 9 lucky tables.....the odds just don't back it up........

Take the judging class........and work on your skills...........
WELL SAID MAN!! PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKE ME WANT TO WORK HARDER.. I APPRECIATE THE NO BASHING AND GOOD COMMENTS... VERY WELL TAKEN AND THANKS MAN!!!!
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Old 08-20-2008, 12:56 PM   #122
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Good post Poobah....

FWIW I will cook anywhere from 20-25 contests a year. I do not consider myself a pro. If I am still learning, I can't be a pro... It's all part of the game, that is why it is called Judging... While I get upset with a wacky score, it's all part of our game. We can't teach taste and tenderness to an individual judge.

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Old 08-20-2008, 12:57 PM   #123
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BBQSMYBFF heres your cattle call.




Vinnie, I believe I met you and your brother at Yardly outside Big Barrys tent. We had a brief discussion on your sauces and i offered my opinions on the 'crazy stuff"... which is in line with the opinion presented to you here. But after going back and reading your cattle call, I'd like to make a few suggestions and point out a few things.

Its not often I have a fit, but I'm gonna step in because you just thru a blanket over my forum, its membership, KCBS and the judging pool by saying we are like everyone else with nothing better to do .. Heres a reality check addressing some of the things in this thread.

1 - Get certified as a judge. Go to the class and learn what the baselines are that your required to cook to for a KCBS Contest. .. it will help you understand what the judges are looking for and stop blaming them. It will help you understand that crazy sauces and deviating too far from the the norm is detrimental. Right now, your comments and accusations seem like nothing more than a disgruntled and inexperienced competitor. We are all aware of the risk of inconsistencies in judging, we accept it and even expect it. But there is this small hole in the center of the BBQ Universe that if you find it, you will consistently score higher than your peers. It is no longer luck, or a good table of judges you land on, but it is YOUR product that is just that good, you may not get all 9's, but u wont get 2 6's that will drag u down. The system WORKS.

2 - Get out of your head that getting a check makes you a pro. Your NOT, I'm not and 99.8% of us here ARE NOT. We are hobbiests, we are enthusiasts, and some even are pitmasters, but we(you included) are NOT Professional Pitmasters or BBQchefs. I don't care how much CIA or culinary experience you have. 2-3 contests and a walk does NOT qualify anyone as a pro on this circuit. Mike Davis, Ray Lampe, Rod Gray, Johnny Trigg.. etc.. they make their living doing BBQ. They have years and years and YEARS of experience and cook more in 8 months than some of us would do in a lifetime. We are the weekend warriors, they are the pitmasters and the folks who will hand us our heads with their eyes closed and a bag of lump. Teams Like I-que, I smell smoke, Cancer sucks, etc..., they are climbing that ladder rung by rung and paying their dues. Its the guys of THAT caliber that qualify as the "PROFESSIONALS". Look up the credentials of Great Grills of Fire, The boys form Tornado Alley, Munching Hogs at the Hilton, Quau, to name a few. But to beat your chest because you got a paycheck is loading yourself into the cannon of disappointment. Slow down, and learn from those around you, or you will be humbled in the blink of a eye. I'm heading to the the American Royal Invitational and possible The Jack this year, and honestly I'm scared chit of what I'm up against and I have been cooking BBQ for 25 years. There are REAL PROS out there.

After 25 years of cooking BBQ and 4 years competing in about 20 contests(4-5 a year), I have a table of trophies, a got bunch of checks.. but I will NEVER claim to be a PROFESSIONAL. I am still learning from the members here and on the circuit, and I respect the opinions and advice of those that offer it. Especially those that know better than I. I won't dismiss their advice and fight for my right to deviate. I take the advice and decide if I want to use it and win, or conversely, try to change the game.

3 - Dump the sour grapes. Use this forum for what its here for. TO LEARN. Face it, you are in a place many of us have been. Your coming off a high from a previous contest and you get your clock cleaned at the next. Been there done that. It's the nature of the beast, and until you accept that, you will be bitter or confused after every contest that you don't take a walk in. If you can not accept the game for what it is, then find another game. Keep this in mind, A GC in an open/backyard/grilling event IS JUDGED UNDER SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS THAN A KCBS CHAMPIONSHIP. Your cattle call states you take pride in crazy sauces and unique products. By all means do that, and learn form the results, but don't chastize the judges because they dont like the product. Experiment in the open events and you may do well, but push the envelope to far to either side in the KCBS event, and you will have a rude awakening. As I stated before, there are expectations in the judges tent. If you choose to ignore those expectations and experiment with the judges, you can not blame anyone but yourself for poor scores.

Face it. Judges will NEVER all agree. The KCBS system drops the low score and weighs the rest. One of my last contests I had 4-8-9-9-9-9... in appearance . WTF?.. I laughed and moved on. It is part of our sport.

4 - Look down this thread and read the names of some of those that have offered advice. Ignore those that threw back the jabs, the moderators will scrub them out again. But their are ALOT of people who have alot.. and I mean many YEARS more experience than you, and they are trying to explain how things work on the KCBS circuit, yet it seems you are fighting it and not accepting things for what they are. You have your opinions and expectations of what this sport should be. We here, are trying to help you understand what IT IS. They do not and will not match up. Everyone who has ever competed was pissed at the judging pool at one tim eor another, but to make blanket statements with disregard to those around you who know better is not going to help you improve. And worse, it's not going to make people around you want to help you to improve.

i apologize if this rant comes across harsh, but at the stage of the thread, the bad Karma being seeded and the constant jabs being thrown, its time to either accept it for what it is, or add it to your ignore list.
Probably one of the best BBQ posts I've ever read !! and no, I'm not just saying that to ki$$ the admin's a$$ either.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:00 PM   #124
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Probably one of the best BBQ posts I've ever read !! and no, I'm not just saying that to ki$$ the admin's a$$ either.
This is why he is the Grand Poobah of BBQ. This is why I hope he runs for KCBS Board again. This is why the forum IS different than all others.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:05 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by BBQchef33 View Post
BBQSMYBFF heres your cattle call.




Vinnie, I believe I met you and your brother at Yardly outside Big Barrys tent. We had a brief discussion on your sauces and i offered my opinions on the 'crazy stuff"... which is in line with the opinion presented to you here. But after going back and reading your cattle call, I'd like to make a few suggestions and point out a few things.

Its not often I have a fit, but I'm gonna step in because you just thru a blanket over my forum, its membership, KCBS and the judging pool by saying we are like everyone else with nothing better to do .. Heres a reality check addressing some of the things in this thread.

1 - Get certified as a judge. Go to the class and learn what the baselines are that your required to cook to for a KCBS Contest. .. it will help you understand what the judges are looking for and stop blaming them. It will help you understand that crazy sauces and deviating too far from the the norm is detrimental. Right now, your comments and accusations seem like nothing more than a disgruntled and inexperienced competitor. We are all aware of the risk of inconsistencies in judging, we accept it and even expect it. But there is this small hole in the center of the BBQ Universe that if you find it, you will consistently score higher than your peers. It is no longer luck, or a good table of judges you land on, but it is YOUR product that is just that good, you may not get all 9's, but u wont get 2 6's that will drag u down. The system WORKS.

2 - Get out of your head that getting a check makes you a pro. Your NOT, I'm not and 99.8% of us here ARE NOT. We are hobbiests, we are enthusiasts, and some even are pitmasters, but we(you included) are NOT Professional Pitmasters or BBQchefs. I don't care how much CIA or culinary experience you have. 2-3 contests and a walk does NOT qualify anyone as a pro on this circuit. Mike Davis, Ray Lampe, Rod Gray, Johnny Trigg.. etc.. they make their living doing BBQ. They have years and years and YEARS of experience and cook more in 8 months than some of us would do in a lifetime. We are the weekend warriors, they are the pitmasters and the folks who will hand us our heads with their eyes closed and a bag of lump. Teams Like I-que, I smell smoke, Cancer sucks, etc..., they are climbing that ladder rung by rung and paying their dues. Its the guys of THAT caliber that qualify as the "PROFESSIONALS". Look up the credentials of Great Grills of Fire, The boys form Tornado Alley, Munching Hogs at the Hilton, Quau, to name a few. But to beat your chest because you got a paycheck is loading yourself into the cannon of disappointment. Slow down, and learn from those around you, or you will be humbled in the blink of a eye. I'm heading to the the American Royal Invitational and possible The Jack this year, and honestly I'm scared chit of what I'm up against and I have been cooking BBQ for 25 years. There are REAL PROS out there.

After 25 years of cooking BBQ and 4 years competing in about 20 contests(4-5 a year), I have a table of trophies, a got bunch of checks.. but I will NEVER claim to be a PROFESSIONAL. I am still learning from the members here and on the circuit, and I respect the opinions and advice of those that offer it. Especially those that know better than I. I won't dismiss their advice and fight for my right to deviate. I take the advice and decide if I want to use it and win, or conversely, try to change the game.

3 - Dump the sour grapes. Use this forum for what its here for. TO LEARN. Face it, you are in a place many of us have been. Your coming off a high from a previous contest and you get your clock cleaned at the next. Been there done that. It's the nature of the beast, and until you accept that, you will be bitter or confused after every contest that you don't take a walk in. If you can not accept the game for what it is, then find another game. Keep this in mind, A GC in an open/backyard/grilling event IS JUDGED UNDER SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS THAN A KCBS CHAMPIONSHIP. Your cattle call states you take pride in crazy sauces and unique products. By all means do that, and learn form the results, but don't chastize the judges because they dont like the product. Experiment in the open events and you may do well, but push the envelope to far to either side in the KCBS event, and you will have a rude awakening. As I stated before, there are expectations in the judges tent. If you choose to ignore those expectations and experiment with the judges, you can not blame anyone but yourself for poor scores.

Face it. Judges will NEVER all agree. The KCBS system drops the low score and weighs the rest. One of my last contests I had 4-8-9-9-9-9... in appearance . WTF?.. I laughed and moved on. It is part of our sport.

4 - Look down this thread and read the names of some of those that have offered advice. Ignore those that threw back the jabs, the moderators will scrub them out again. But their are ALOT of people who have alot.. and I mean many YEARS more experience than you, and they are trying to explain how things work on the KCBS circuit, yet it seems you are fighting it and not accepting things for what they are. You have your opinions and expectations of what this sport should be. We here, are trying to help you understand what IT IS. They do not and will not match up. Everyone who has ever competed was pissed at the judging pool at one tim eor another, but to make blanket statements with disregard to those around you who know better is not going to help you improve. And worse, it's not going to make people around you want to help you to improve.

i apologize if this rant comes across harsh, but at the stage of the thread, the bad Karma being seeded and the constant jabs being thrown, its time to either accept it for what it is, or add it to your ignore list.

amen! amen!! not harsh at all.. glad you got in!! thanks poobah.. just lock it down and out with the entire thread.. easier to do that.. we all got our comments, answer, and anything else that was thrown into the mix.. see you at another comp soon!!
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:13 PM   #126
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Lottery eh? Hmmmmmmm The Mega millions jackpot is now $95 million. SO then a team lets just sau I smell smoke shouldnt even bother competing this coming weekend at New Holland. They are so damn lucky all of the time that winning the Jackpot should be a sure thing!
I'm going to play the lottery and go to New Holland !!
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:00 PM   #127
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I grew up showing dogs, Pollocks will know of what I speak. There is a standard for a breed. No dog will ever be "THE" standard. But that is what is strived for. Now the judges are trained to understand the standard. They are looking for "THE" standard. But there isn't one. So which dog is closest? Depends on the judge, does he prefer a better top knot over a better hock? Does the KCBS judge, looking at what the standard has been taught to him prefer a slightly beefier taste vs a sweeter taste? He may, but the next judge may prefer a bit sweeter. Both judges will probably give a score within a point of each other as they realize there is no perfect standard BBQ to be had. But they understand the concept of being closest to the standard. and people that consistently win are putting out a product, or breed if you will, that is consistently closer to the standard set forth. Take the class, it was the second thing I did after getting a pit. Then go to a competition and judge or walk the aisles looking at creativity. Ask a few questions. I will tell you there is a night and day difference in backyard and comp cooking. This weekend I made some social ribs, they were tasty, but by no means were they comp ribs.

You get one, maybe two bites for the judge to go WOW!!! If he's trying to figure out if that is a wasabi glaze or a tumeric paste, you've lost him and he/she will score accordingly. Ever pick up a drink and expect to be something it isn't? Remember the assault to your senses? That's what a judge feels when they bite into a BBQ that doesn't taste like a KCBS standards. Confused, disappointed, and they will show it to you in your scores.

I'm good in the backyard, ask all my neighbors and friends, I've still got a lot to learn on the comp flavors. But I will say, it has to grab them. Scott
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:03 PM   #128
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I'm going to play the lottery and go to New Holland !!

good luck!!! HOPE YOU GUYS WHOOP ARSE AND TAKE NAMES!!
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:06 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Yakfishingfool View Post
I grew up showing dogs, Pollocks will know of what I speak. There is a standard for a breed. No dog will ever be "THE" standard. But that is what is strived for. Now the judges are trained to understand the standard. They are looking for "THE" standard. But there isn't one. So which dog is closest? Depends on the judge, does he prefer a better top knot over a better hock? Does the KCBS judge, looking at what the standard has been taught to him prefer a slightly beefier taste vs a sweeter taste? He may, but the next judge may prefer a bit sweeter. Both judges will probably give a score within a point of each other as they realize there is no perfect standard BBQ to be had. But they understand the concept of being closest to the standard. and people that consistently win are putting out a product, or breed if you will, that is consistently closer to the standard set forth. Take the class, it was the second thing I did after getting a pit. Then go to a competition and judge or walk the aisles looking at creativity. Ask a few questions. I will tell you there is a night and day difference in backyard and comp cooking. This weekend I made some social ribs, they were tasty, but by no means were they comp ribs.

You get one, maybe two bites for the judge to go WOW!!! If he's trying to figure out if that is a wasabi glaze or a tumeric paste, you've lost him and he/she will score accordingly. Ever pick up a drink and expect to be something it isn't? Remember the assault to your senses? That's what a judge feels when they bite into a BBQ that doesn't taste like a KCBS standards. Confused, disappointed, and they will show it to you in your scores.

I'm good in the backyard, ask all my neighbors and friends, I've still got a lot to learn on the comp flavors. But I will say, it has to grab them. Scott
dog shows ruin dog breeds, maybe BBQ contests are ruining BBQ

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Old 08-20-2008, 03:43 PM   #130
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You get one, maybe two bites for the judge to go WOW!!! If he's trying to figure out if that is a wasabi glaze or a tumeric paste, you've lost him and he/she will score accordingly. Ever pick up a drink and expect to be something it isn't? Remember the assault to your senses? That's what a judge feels when they bite into a BBQ that doesn't taste like a KCBS standards. Confused, disappointed, and they will show it to you in your scores.
the drink example is a good one !!!.. slip someone's beer away and replace it with orange Crush and see what kind of responce they'll get..

If it doesn't taste like good ol' Traditional American BBQ, and if you try to redefine it, you'll get what you asked for.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:34 PM   #131
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Well said Phil,and several others have offered honest, hard earned advice. Key word-EARNED. As said somewhere, if it was easy, everyone could do it. As told go to classes-judging, cooking, whatever helps to become better. Use this forum for great help, and time saving tips. Steve.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:36 PM   #132
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If anyone would like to offer more constructive comments, lets go for it and we will leave the floor open. Lets avoid the negativity and move forward leaving an educational thread in our archive that new competitors can learn from.. what to do, and what NOT to do..
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Old 08-20-2008, 06:42 PM   #133
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**Sidebar**

If anyone would like to offer more constructive comments, lets go for it and we will leave the floor open. Lets avoid the negativity and move forward leaving an educational thread in our archive that new competitors can learn from.. what to do, and what NOT to do..
Well... "Shucks".
I have been away and was just ready to launch on this thread

Great wrap-up Phil.
You hit the nail on the head.

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Old 08-20-2008, 07:28 PM   #134
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My only .02 worth is this...when I go to a contest, I want to learn something. It may be a cooking technique, a taste that is popular in that region of the country, or even a hint as to how to better the garnish in a turn in box. If the day ever comes that I feel like I am not learning anything anymore, that will be the day that I quit. I am such a long way of even being in the same level as most of the people I compete against...Podge has seen how I place...but this to me is a fun, learning experience. You take either one of those ingredients out...well, what is the point? Sure, there have been times I wanted to personally look for a judge...who hasn't? But what it boils down to is that when the smoke clears, I am still having FUN! Life is too short not to, ya know??
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:37 PM   #135
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Is it just me, or is this the first thread in the history of ever where the majority of cooks seem to be defending judges?:ee k:
Ive never bashed the KCBS and their judges.
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