chicken judging photo and question

SmokinGuitarPlayer · 06-20-2011, 08:01 AM

We competed in a local, small competition over this weekend. It was not KCBS sanctioned but sanctioned by one of the regional groups who did a great job of running the event ... anyway ... the local newspaper ran a photo today of a chicken judges table and if you look at the photo, it looks like almost, if not all of the entries the skin has been pulled back / off and the bite taken without tasting the skin !!! After putting all this effort into making the skin bite-through and flavor "layering" with sauce , glaze, rub, etc. it would be a shame if the judges never even taste the skin !! Does anyone out there know if THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS (tasting but removing / peeling off the skin first) . ... and is this proper judging?

Alexa RnQ · 06-20-2011, 08:19 AM

Sadly, if the contest is unsanctioned, you have no guarantees about what is "proper judging". There will be neither guidelines in place for how the food should be sampled, nor a pool of trained judges to draw from -- and you know most of the public has been brainwashed by bonesless, skinless breast for decades. Fat is EVIL!!! So why are they judging barbeque???

SmokinGuitarPlayer · 06-20-2011, 08:25 AM

From what I was told, there was an experienced and properly trained KCBS judge at each table who spent time, coaching the judges as to how / what to do. I met some of these judges after the event and they were "right on" and explained that they did a lot of "hand holding" to make sure things went as good as possible.

Am I wrong to assume that by KCBS guidelines, if the skin is there, it is supposed to be "bitten" ...correct?

Alexa RnQ · 06-20-2011, 08:42 AM

Yes, the product is supposed to be judged "as presented".

However, just because a CBJ is coaching the table, the photo is indisputable proof that they can't MAKE laymen judge by KCBS standards.

mobow · 06-20-2011, 08:50 AM

KCBS standards state that if the chicken is turned in with skin on it should at least be sampled. The standard is not specific as to how the judge accomplishes this. Keith

bbq.tom · 06-20-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokinGuitarPlayer

Am I wrong to assume that by KCBS guidelines, if the skin is there, it is supposed to be "bitten" ...correct?

Straight from the KCBS Judge Certification handbook:
"Chicken: Chicken may be presented with or without the skin. It may also be presented with a combination of dark and white meat or all one or the other. The type presented should not in any way affect the way it is scored. Properly smoked chicken will be moist and have a nice texture and any juice present should be clear. Smoked chicken has a tendency to produce a red coloring around the bone areas, especially in the thigh and leg meat. To some it gives the impression that it was undercooked. Always check the juices and if they are clear you will find the chicken is properly cooked. There may be, at times, a pink appearance to the breast meat if it has been smoked for some time. However, we do not judge chicken on its color as some cooks prepare their chicken in such a way the breast meat will remain white."

Additionally, at the judges meeting prior to each event, the direction is given that if skin is on the piece of chicken it must be "tasted". I have NEVER heard the direction that it must be "bitten" to determine "bite-through"; however, that is one of the "usual/understood" criteria for judging chicken with skin on.

Ford · 06-20-2011, 09:03 AM

I know for a fact some judges take the piece apart before eating it. They want to make sure it's cooked. They should take a piece of skin with the meat but that doesn't test bite thru. That's all part of judging and you take the good with the bad.

A good judge will take the peice presented and take a bite before doing anything else. After all if it's not done and you see blood you can spit it out and should be OK.

Goddahavit · 06-20-2011, 01:29 PM

Fred, seems you did pretty good there in Chicken...

I cant tell from those pix weather or not they bit then pealed the skin back or pealed then bit.

I can say if they don't take a bit of mine its not going to be a balanced taste.

Its all part of the game...

P.S. Where did you get the pix? got any others?

Thanks, Eric

SmokinGuitarPlayer · 06-20-2011, 03:35 PM

Eric ... yes, I guess we both had a pretty good weekend. I really think we have the chicken thing "together" but if they don't taste the whole thing in one bite, they are missing the flavor profile and the bite through skin ... both of which take a ton of work to get right.

Did you see my buddies in Psychedelic Smoke took reserve ..first time out!

Also, After the contest I found an error on the score sheet (on my ribs entry , judge 6, no number entered for tenderness... they forgot to enter the score).The error seriously affected my teams placement overall and on ribs and my team guys were quite upset but **** happens...everybody involved in running that contest did a great job.

FB/SGP

Goddahavit · 06-20-2011, 03:46 PM

That was great for Psychedelic Smoke, I didn't get to talk to them much, but that was a awesome job.

Sorry to hear about the Ribs that does stink... looks like that could have really mattered as it was in tenderness.

Lake Dogs · 06-20-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokinGuitarPlayer

Eric ... yes, I guess we both had a pretty good weekend. I really think we have the chicken thing "together" but if they don't taste the whole thing in one bite, they are missing the flavor profile and the bite through skin ... both of which take a ton of work to get right.

Did you see my buddies in Psychedelic Smoke took reserve ..first time out!

Also, After the contest I found an error on the score sheet (on my ribs entry , judge 6, no number entered for tenderness... they forgot to enter the score).The error seriously affected my teams placement overall and on ribs and my team guys were quite upset but **** happens...everybody involved in running that contest did a great job.

FB/SGP

There are a few hundred reasons why to participate only in a sanctioned contest, and then only in a very seasoned reputable sanctioning body.

redneck cooker · 06-20-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

There are a few hundred reasons why to participate only in a sanctioned contest, and then only in a very seasoned reputable sanctioning body.

i couldn't agree more.....

huminie · 06-20-2011, 04:48 PM

I know judges who will take a bite through the skin and then peel back the skin to taste the meat to see how much flavor it has vs. all the flavor coming from the rub/sauce on the outside. They want to taste some flavor/smoke in the meat in addition to whatever is put on top.

I don't think you can tell from the one pic what is going on there.

I agree with the statements about sanctioned contests. Non-sanctioned events are a wild-west affair!

SmokinGuitarPlayer · 06-20-2011, 05:49 PM

Just to make it clear ..I never said it was "non-sanctioned" . I said it was not KCBS sanctioned. It was sanctioned by the regional group and they did a wonderful job all weekend. Yes, it was more of a casual contest but there were serious competitors there. Also, it was great having a nice contest so close to us. We had a great time and thank everybody who helped put it on.

Alexa RnQ · 06-20-2011, 06:02 PM

What sanctioning body was it?

06-20-2011, 08:01 AM	#1
SmokinGuitarPlayer Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 02-23-09 Location: Shillington, Pa.	chicken judging photo and question We competed in a local, small competition over this weekend. It was not KCBS sanctioned but sanctioned by one of the regional groups who did a great job of running the event ... anyway ... the local newspaper ran a photo today of a chicken judges table and if you look at the photo, it looks like almost, if not all of the entries the skin has been pulled back / off and the bite taken without tasting the skin !!! After putting all this effort into making the skin bite-through and flavor "layering" with sauce , glaze, rub, etc. it would be a shame if the judges never even taste the skin !! Does anyone out there know if THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS (tasting but removing / peeling off the skin first) . ... and is this proper judging? __________________ Tasty Licks BBQ Supply sells Green Mountain Grills, Meadow Creek, Big Green Egg, Grilldome and Primo Ceramic Grills / smokers, Weber, Hasty Bake, Memphis Grills, Traeger and Cajun Injector. Great accessories like Grill Grates and Firewires, Maverick Thermos and all the grillin tools you could ever need. Competition supplies like gloves, pans, etc. BBQer's Delights, Green Mountain, and Cookin' pellets. A HUGE selection of the best lump charcoal, and some of the best sauces and spices going. We're also pizza making specialists and Forno Bravo Dealers. [URL="http://www.tastylicksbbq.com"]Tasty Licks BBQ Rubs & Sauces[/URL] [URL="http://www.fredsmusicandbbq.com"]Fred's Music & BBQ Supply Online Store & Showroom www.fredsmusicandbbq.com[/URL] -

06-20-2011, 08:19 AM	#2
Alexa RnQ is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 09-12-07 Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix	Sadly, if the contest is unsanctioned, you have no guarantees about what is "proper judging". There will be neither guidelines in place for how the food should be sampled, nor a pool of trained judges to draw from -- and you know most of the public has been brainwashed by bonesless, skinless breast for decades. Fat is EVIL!!! So why are they judging barbeque??? __________________ . Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url]

06-20-2011, 08:25 AM	#3
SmokinGuitarPlayer Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 02-23-09 Location: Shillington, Pa.	From what I was told, there was an experienced and properly trained KCBS judge at each table who spent time, coaching the judges as to how / what to do. I met some of these judges after the event and they were "right on" and explained that they did a lot of "hand holding" to make sure things went as good as possible. Am I wrong to assume that by KCBS guidelines, if the skin is there, it is supposed to be "bitten" ...correct? __________________ Tasty Licks BBQ Supply sells Green Mountain Grills, Meadow Creek, Big Green Egg, Grilldome and Primo Ceramic Grills / smokers, Weber, Hasty Bake, Memphis Grills, Traeger and Cajun Injector. Great accessories like Grill Grates and Firewires, Maverick Thermos and all the grillin tools you could ever need. Competition supplies like gloves, pans, etc. BBQer's Delights, Green Mountain, and Cookin' pellets. A HUGE selection of the best lump charcoal, and some of the best sauces and spices going. We're also pizza making specialists and Forno Bravo Dealers. [URL="http://www.tastylicksbbq.com"]Tasty Licks BBQ Rubs & Sauces[/URL] [URL="http://www.fredsmusicandbbq.com"]Fred's Music & BBQ Supply Online Store & Showroom www.fredsmusicandbbq.com[/URL] -

06-20-2011, 08:42 AM	#4
Alexa RnQ is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 09-12-07 Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix	Yes, the product is supposed to be judged "as presented". However, just because a CBJ is coaching the table, the photo is indisputable proof that they can't MAKE laymen judge by KCBS standards. __________________ . Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url]

06-20-2011, 08:50 AM	#5
mobow is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 12-11-09 Location: Marshall MO	KCBS standards state that if the chicken is turned in with skin on it should at least be sampled. The standard is not specific as to how the judge accomplishes this. Keith __________________ WSM 22.5, MCBJ, In The Key Of Que

06-20-2011, 09:03 AM	#7
Ford is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 04-14-07 Location: Lakeland Florida	I know for a fact some judges take the piece apart before eating it. They want to make sure it's cooked. They should take a piece of skin with the meat but that doesn't test bite thru. That's all part of judging and you take the good with the bad. A good judge will take the peice presented and take a bite before doing anything else. After all if it's not done and you see blood you can spit it out and should be OK. __________________ Ford Retired competition cook. BBQ mentor.

06-20-2011, 01:29 PM	#8
Goddahavit is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 08-18-08 Location: PA, Fleetwood	Fred, seems you did pretty good there in Chicken... I cant tell from those pix weather or not they bit then pealed the skin back or pealed then bit. I can say if they don't take a bit of mine its not going to be a balanced taste. Its all part of the game... P.S. Where did you get the pix? got any others? Thanks, Eric __________________ Fire & Spice Catering & Competition Team [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected][/EMAIL] Stumps Platinum 5 on a porch trailer Backyard Jambo Stump's Stretch Bubba Keg Weber WSM Old weber gasser Last edited by Goddahavit; 06-20-2011 at 01:45 PM..

06-20-2011, 03:35 PM	#9
SmokinGuitarPlayer Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 02-23-09 Location: Shillington, Pa.	Eric ... yes, I guess we both had a pretty good weekend. I really think we have the chicken thing "together" but if they don't taste the whole thing in one bite, they are missing the flavor profile and the bite through skin ... both of which take a ton of work to get right. Did you see my buddies in Psychedelic Smoke took reserve ..first time out! Also, After the contest I found an error on the score sheet (on my ribs entry , judge 6, no number entered for tenderness... they forgot to enter the score).The error seriously affected my teams placement overall and on ribs and my team guys were quite upset but **** happens...everybody involved in running that contest did a great job. FB/SGP __________________ Tasty Licks BBQ Supply sells Green Mountain Grills, Meadow Creek, Big Green Egg, Grilldome and Primo Ceramic Grills / smokers, Weber, Hasty Bake, Memphis Grills, Traeger and Cajun Injector. Great accessories like Grill Grates and Firewires, Maverick Thermos and all the grillin tools you could ever need. Competition supplies like gloves, pans, etc. BBQer's Delights, Green Mountain, and Cookin' pellets. A HUGE selection of the best lump charcoal, and some of the best sauces and spices going. We're also pizza making specialists and Forno Bravo Dealers. [URL="http://www.tastylicksbbq.com"]Tasty Licks BBQ Rubs & Sauces[/URL] [URL="http://www.fredsmusicandbbq.com"]Fred's Music & BBQ Supply Online Store & Showroom www.fredsmusicandbbq.com[/URL] -

06-20-2011, 03:46 PM	#10
Goddahavit is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 08-18-08 Location: PA, Fleetwood	That was great for Psychedelic Smoke, I didn't get to talk to them much, but that was a awesome job. Sorry to hear about the Ribs that does stink... looks like that could have really mattered as it was in tenderness. __________________ Fire & Spice Catering & Competition Team [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected][/EMAIL] Stumps Platinum 5 on a porch trailer Backyard Jambo Stump's Stretch Bubba Keg Weber WSM Old weber gasser

06-20-2011, 04:48 PM	#13
huminie is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 07-11-10 Location: Gilroy, CA	I know judges who will take a bite through the skin and then peel back the skin to taste the meat to see how much flavor it has vs. all the flavor coming from the rub/sauce on the outside. They want to taste some flavor/smoke in the meat in addition to whatever is put on top. I don't think you can tell from the one pic what is going on there. I agree with the statements about sanctioned contests. Non-sanctioned events are a wild-west affair! __________________ 2011 CBBQA Rookie ToY - 6th Overall, 2012 American Royal Invitational - Huminie's Hogalicious BBQ

06-20-2011, 05:49 PM	#14
SmokinGuitarPlayer Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 02-23-09 Location: Shillington, Pa.	Just to make it clear ..I never said it was "non-sanctioned" . I said it was not KCBS sanctioned. It was sanctioned by the regional group and they did a wonderful job all weekend. Yes, it was more of a casual contest but there were serious competitors there. Also, it was great having a nice contest so close to us. We had a great time and thank everybody who helped put it on. __________________ Tasty Licks BBQ Supply sells Green Mountain Grills, Meadow Creek, Big Green Egg, Grilldome and Primo Ceramic Grills / smokers, Weber, Hasty Bake, Memphis Grills, Traeger and Cajun Injector. Great accessories like Grill Grates and Firewires, Maverick Thermos and all the grillin tools you could ever need. Competition supplies like gloves, pans, etc. BBQer's Delights, Green Mountain, and Cookin' pellets. A HUGE selection of the best lump charcoal, and some of the best sauces and spices going. We're also pizza making specialists and Forno Bravo Dealers. [URL="http://www.tastylicksbbq.com"]Tasty Licks BBQ Rubs & Sauces[/URL] [URL="http://www.fredsmusicandbbq.com"]Fred's Music & BBQ Supply Online Store & Showroom www.fredsmusicandbbq.com[/URL] -

06-20-2011, 06:02 PM	#15
Alexa RnQ is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 09-12-07 Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix	What sanctioning body was it? __________________ . Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url]

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