WSM+Guru question (not getting up to set temp)

Untraceable · 11-12-2012, 01:02 PM

Got a guru+ wsm question. Right now my Ive got a DigiQ set up on a 22WSM. top vent wide open, guru fan damper wide open. Temp set point is 250. for the past 15min Ive been floating between 236-238 and the beeps are only showing the guru is running 40-50% (4 beeps pause 5 beeps pause).

a simular thing happened the last time I tried using it. I had a set point of 275 and It would only hit 262 but that time it was showing 90% fan.

any sugestions. only my second time using the guru but this just isnt making sense. Its like the Guru is trying to ramp down to not overshoot the set temp, but in the process not even getting to the set temp.

running KB like Id always use. typically no problem hitting 300+ without a guru

Untraceable · 11-12-2012, 01:04 PM

update. now Im getting 80% and it finally hit 240-242. does it just take a good period of time for a guru to learn the pit and bring it to temp?

clikover · 11-12-2012, 09:11 PM

I have a WSM and Guru and never had an issue. How are you starting it? Minion method? What are you doing with the water pan? Have you made sure that the slider on the Guru fan is wide open? (not the WSM damper, but the slider on the pit fan). The Guru doesn't "learn" a pit from one use to the next. Once you unplug it, all memory is gone. It does "learn" during each cook cycle, based upon some algorithims that figure out how much temp movement occurs based upon how long the fan is on, etc. Also, just to confirm, your probe cable isn't damaged? How do the Guru temps compare to the therm on the WSM?

Untraceable · 11-13-2012, 06:32 AM

Minion start (or whatever you call dumping a chimney of lit on a pile of unlit)
Guru dampener wide open
top vent wide open
10cfm fan
no water

I waited till the wsm was around 200 before I put on the guru. maybe I should have waited a little longer to put the guru on. Im just dumbfounded at how long it takes to recover temp and establish temps. I guess I just dont have enough lit. should be a simple formula Lit+O2=heat.

I have used a pitmaster 2x and both times I had to close off the top vent 80% to prevent overshoots. neither guru cook even came close to overshooting.

I do have the wsm stacker on mine but there is very little difference when naturally aspirated cooking

foam2 · 11-13-2012, 09:28 AM

I have the same set up as you minus the stacker. My typical start for a long cook is a full ring of briquettes with wood burried in a few levels and then topped off with 20 lit briquettes. I set up the rest of the cooker at this point and start up the digiq and let it bring the pit up to temp. This set up typically takes 15-30 minutes to come up to temp which by then the white smoke starts to slow down and the smoker is ready for the meat to go on. I have played with the top vent at times and typically leave it fully open unless it is windy and then I will close it half way. I would look at your probe placement and if there are other things that are obstructing the air flow through your smoker. If the probe is too close to the meat it will bias your reading and if you are foiling your cooking grates it can also bias your readings.
One other area I thought of might be the fit of the guru adapter to your bottom vent. Make sure on the inside of the bowl, the top protion of the adapter seals up so that all the air provided by the guru gets diverted down.

Untraceable · 11-13-2012, 10:29 AM

Temp probe is dead in the middle of the top rack

I have the guru adapter on the bottom left of the 4 intake holes and I have questioned that placement as the diverter blows it down but then its almost directly into the charcoal grate. should I have the adapter on the top of the 4 intake holes. I have the other 3 intake holes plugged with sheetmetal plugs. I could just pop one out and switch up the location.

to me the odd thing was just how it was stuck cycling about 13 degrees south of the target. it would cycle 40-50% the temp would climb 2 degrees and then fall back and it would cycle again. in my head I would think it should have been cycling at a higher percentage.

swamprb · 11-13-2012, 11:21 AM

Open the fan gate 100% and close down the lid vent to barely a crack.

Which 22" WSM do you have? The Gen1 charcoal grate sits very low to the bottom vents and you really need to do the mod to raise it above the vents.

Gen2 (arched opening in center section) alleviated the mod so it should be no problem, BUT packing a full ring of BBK and waiting until the pit got to 200* then putting meat on with a top vent wide open is taking it to task.

I also have seen that some 10cfm fans on some Guru's are actually rated less than stated.

foam2 · 11-13-2012, 11:39 AM

Start checking variables one at a time. With all the ash removed from the wsm and with all new briquettes, try your next cook with the stacker removed. If that solves the problem you can isolate why that is.
You can check the briquettes you are using. Maybe they are producing more ash than another brand and blocking and restricting air flow to your fire. I use mostly Kingsford competition and other than the occassional shake of the coals, I typically don't have an excessive amount of ash build up. You could also look at the source of your briquettes and see if changing helps.
You could also look into the guru adapter position and see if that makes a difference as well as to make sure the other vents are closed during your cook with the guru and that the adapter is sealed up well. With the curve of the bowl it can be difficult to get the adapter set right.
On my 10cfm fan I actually have the damper set to 50%, not sure if that makes a difference.
You could also check to see if your probes are properly calibrated - I'm sure they are but try the boiling water test and freezing water test as well to see. Additionally if you have a maverick or other remote thermometer, set probes for the maverick and the guru near eachother with the guru on but blower not installed and not controlling the pit and with your smoker manually going and check to see what readings you get and compare them to the guru's pit reading as well. If you are using the dome thermometer as a guide or reference, I have found it to be wildly inaccurate.
You could also try to manually take the pit to temp without the guru blower installed and see if you are able to get the temp up - if you can't you know that the problem is not the guru.
In the end we are trying to see the effects of fuel and air to control the temp and I'm sure a few tests can help you dial in. With the guru you should be able to set it and forget it, I know I do, but there have been occassions where I have made mistakes and it showed up with not achieving the temperatures I wanted.

Untraceable · 11-13-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamprb

Which 22" WSM do you have? The Gen1 charcoal grate sits very low to the bottom vents and you really need to do the mod to raise it above the vents.

Gen2 (arched opening in center section) alleviated the mod so it should be no problem, BUT packing a full ring of BBK and waiting until the pit got to 200* then putting meat on with a top vent wide open is taking it to task.

I also have seen that some 10cfm fans on some Guru's are actually rated less than stated.

I have a gen 2 but the lower vents are above the charcoal grate. is the charcoal grate suposed to be above the vent?

I was keeping the lid vent wide open to get the air flow up. maybe too much air is coming through and its cooling the wsm?

Untraceable · 11-13-2012, 11:58 AM

and to clairify, I didnt put the meat on until I reached the set temp. ran the digiq with no food probe

11-12-2012, 01:02 PM	#1
Untraceable Babbling Farker Join Date: 05-19-11 Location: EAD	WSM+Guru question (not getting up to set temp) Got a guru+ wsm question. Right now my Ive got a DigiQ set up on a 22WSM. top vent wide open, guru fan damper wide open. Temp set point is 250. for the past 15min Ive been floating between 236-238 and the beeps are only showing the guru is running 40-50% (4 beeps pause 5 beeps pause). a simular thing happened the last time I tried using it. I had a set point of 275 and It would only hit 262 but that time it was showing 90% fan. any sugestions. only my second time using the guru but this just isnt making sense. Its like the Guru is trying to ramp down to not overshoot the set temp, but in the process not even getting to the set temp. running KB like Id always use. typically no problem hitting 300+ without a guru

11-12-2012, 01:04 PM	#2
Untraceable Babbling Farker Join Date: 05-19-11 Location: EAD	update. now Im getting 80% and it finally hit 240-242. does it just take a good period of time for a guru to learn the pit and bring it to temp? Last edited by Untraceable; 11-12-2012 at 03:23 PM..

11-13-2012, 11:21 AM	#7
swamprb somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 10-27-06 Location: Bothell WA	Open the fan gate 100% and close down the lid vent to barely a crack. Which 22" WSM do you have? The Gen1 charcoal grate sits very low to the bottom vents and you really need to do the mod to raise it above the vents. Gen2 (arched opening in center section) alleviated the mod so it should be no problem, BUT packing a full ring of BBK and waiting until the pit got to 200* then putting meat on with a top vent wide open is taking it to task. I also have seen that some 10cfm fans on some Guru's are actually rated less than stated. __________________ Brian - Left Hand Smoke BBQ PNWBA 2010 Team of the Year BGE's/WSM's/Pellet Pro WSM/BWS Gater/BDS Clones/Cookshack 008/Weber Performer w EZ-Que/Cajun Bandit/Rib-O-Lator Test Pilot/La Caja China/BBQ Guru/Weber 1000 RK Drum Coffee Roaster Follow Left Hand Smoke on Facebook!http://www.facebook.com/pages/Left-H...462391?sk=wall KCBS CBJ/PNWBA CBJ www.pnwba.com

11-12-2012, 09:11 PM	#3
clikover Knows what a fatty is. Join Date: 04-17-11 Location: Dallas, TX	I have a WSM and Guru and never had an issue. How are you starting it? Minion method? What are you doing with the water pan? Have you made sure that the slider on the Guru fan is wide open? (not the WSM damper, but the slider on the pit fan). The Guru doesn't "learn" a pit from one use to the next. Once you unplug it, all memory is gone. It does "learn" during each cook cycle, based upon some algorithims that figure out how much temp movement occurs based upon how long the fan is on, etc. Also, just to confirm, your probe cable isn't damaged? How do the Guru temps compare to the therm on the WSM?

11-13-2012, 06:32 AM	#4
Untraceable Babbling Farker Join Date: 05-19-11 Location: EAD	Minion start (or whatever you call dumping a chimney of lit on a pile of unlit) Guru dampener wide open top vent wide open 10cfm fan no water I waited till the wsm was around 200 before I put on the guru. maybe I should have waited a little longer to put the guru on. Im just dumbfounded at how long it takes to recover temp and establish temps. I guess I just dont have enough lit. should be a simple formula Lit+O2=heat. I have used a pitmaster 2x and both times I had to close off the top vent 80% to prevent overshoots. neither guru cook even came close to overshooting. I do have the wsm stacker on mine but there is very little difference when naturally aspirated cooking

11-13-2012, 09:28 AM	#5
foam2 Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 12-02-11 Location: chicago, illinois	I have the same set up as you minus the stacker. My typical start for a long cook is a full ring of briquettes with wood burried in a few levels and then topped off with 20 lit briquettes. I set up the rest of the cooker at this point and start up the digiq and let it bring the pit up to temp. This set up typically takes 15-30 minutes to come up to temp which by then the white smoke starts to slow down and the smoker is ready for the meat to go on. I have played with the top vent at times and typically leave it fully open unless it is windy and then I will close it half way. I would look at your probe placement and if there are other things that are obstructing the air flow through your smoker. If the probe is too close to the meat it will bias your reading and if you are foiling your cooking grates it can also bias your readings. One other area I thought of might be the fit of the guru adapter to your bottom vent. Make sure on the inside of the bowl, the top protion of the adapter seals up so that all the air provided by the guru gets diverted down.

11-13-2012, 10:29 AM	#6
Untraceable Babbling Farker Join Date: 05-19-11 Location: EAD	Temp probe is dead in the middle of the top rack I have the guru adapter on the bottom left of the 4 intake holes and I have questioned that placement as the diverter blows it down but then its almost directly into the charcoal grate. should I have the adapter on the top of the 4 intake holes. I have the other 3 intake holes plugged with sheetmetal plugs. I could just pop one out and switch up the location. to me the odd thing was just how it was stuck cycling about 13 degrees south of the target. it would cycle 40-50% the temp would climb 2 degrees and then fall back and it would cycle again. in my head I would think it should have been cycling at a higher percentage.

11-13-2012, 11:39 AM	#8
foam2 Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 12-02-11 Location: chicago, illinois	Start checking variables one at a time. With all the ash removed from the wsm and with all new briquettes, try your next cook with the stacker removed. If that solves the problem you can isolate why that is. You can check the briquettes you are using. Maybe they are producing more ash than another brand and blocking and restricting air flow to your fire. I use mostly Kingsford competition and other than the occassional shake of the coals, I typically don't have an excessive amount of ash build up. You could also look at the source of your briquettes and see if changing helps. You could also look into the guru adapter position and see if that makes a difference as well as to make sure the other vents are closed during your cook with the guru and that the adapter is sealed up well. With the curve of the bowl it can be difficult to get the adapter set right. On my 10cfm fan I actually have the damper set to 50%, not sure if that makes a difference. You could also check to see if your probes are properly calibrated - I'm sure they are but try the boiling water test and freezing water test as well to see. Additionally if you have a maverick or other remote thermometer, set probes for the maverick and the guru near eachother with the guru on but blower not installed and not controlling the pit and with your smoker manually going and check to see what readings you get and compare them to the guru's pit reading as well. If you are using the dome thermometer as a guide or reference, I have found it to be wildly inaccurate. You could also try to manually take the pit to temp without the guru blower installed and see if you are able to get the temp up - if you can't you know that the problem is not the guru. In the end we are trying to see the effects of fuel and air to control the temp and I'm sure a few tests can help you dial in. With the guru you should be able to set it and forget it, I know I do, but there have been occassions where I have made mistakes and it showed up with not achieving the temperatures I wanted.

11-13-2012, 11:58 AM	#10
Untraceable Babbling Farker Join Date: 05-19-11 Location: EAD	and to clairify, I didnt put the meat on until I reached the set temp. ran the digiq with no food probe