dave, i should have some from a comp last week, have to get them out of my digital camera which is not with me, we turned in all product last week at a KCBS comp with no garnish to see what would happen to the presentation scores, they did not go down enough to hurt us, that was a big suprise, finished 1st,3rd and 5th with no garnish ! go fiqure, will post the pix to this thread later