New KCBS scoresheet

:icon_bugeyed^^^Cause this is a discussion board.

And people are discussing the new format and talking about how it can help them get better, or not. And they are simply saying what they would like to see or not.

But that could just be a guess. :grin:
 
Candy Sue said:
The Glasgow issue was not an issue with KCBScore. The contest has been re-entered multiple times, results as posted have been duplicated exactly. The program has integrity, it works as expected. If there were issues with KCBScore, I would say so. I have confidence that what happened at Glasgow was an aberration and steps are in place to rectify same going forward.
Click to expand...


So just to be clear, you are saying that the same information was entered into the new KCBScore system multiple times and it output the same results?

Any chance that the same data was entered into the old system and the results matched?

Also you are confirming that the issues from Glasgow were in no way a bug within the software and no reasonable person would think that it was a software bug given the situation?
 
Yes

No -- weighting changed slightly with KCBScore. Many times the results would be close, but not necessarily every time. KCBS did run KCBScore at a number of contests pre-release to check this. This is why BQwin and KCBScore can't run side by side. This is why a date certain was picked to switch scoring programs at all contests.

Yes
 
Candy Sue said:
Yes

No -- weighting changed slightly with KCBScore. Many times the results would be close, but not necessarily every time. KCBS did run KCBScore at a number of contests pre-release to check this. This is why BQwin and KCBScore can't run side by side. This is why a date certain was picked to switch scoring programs at all contests.

Yes
Click to expand...


My point is that running the same data through the software is no way to confirm that the scores are actually correct, just that the system will act in the same manner consistently.

I am guessing that someone actually did the math by hand to confirm that the results from KCBScore are accurate, but you saying that KCBScore spits out the same results is VERY different than saying that it spits out the CORRECT scores.

So can you also confirm that the scores coming out of KCBScore are accurate and that has been verified by several different sources. Not just running the contest data back through KCBScore. Again, running the contest data through KCBScore multiple times DOES NOT confirm that the scores are accurate, only that KCBScore acts consistently. Which is a good thing and important, but it does not confirm the accuracy.

Also providing the method used to confirm the results were accurate would be great.


thanks
 
CivilWarBBQ said:
Straight, simple answers.

Candy Sue serves the KCBS membership well my friends.
Click to expand...


unfortunately simple answers didnt really get to the point of confirming that the scores are accurate only that they are consistent. You know that there is a big difference and running the data through the same system in no way confirms accuracy.
 
DawgPhan said:
My point is that running the same data through the software is no way to confirm that the scores are actually correct, just that the system will act in the same manner consistently.

I am guessing that someone actually did the math by hand to confirm that the results from KCBScore are accurate, but you saying that KCBScore spits out the same results is VERY different than saying that it spits out the CORRECT scores.

So can you also confirm that the scores coming out of KCBScore are accurate and that has been verified by several different sources. Not just running the contest data back through KCBScore. Again, running the contest data through KCBScore multiple times DOES NOT confirm that the scores are accurate, only that KCBScore acts consistently. Which is a good thing and important, but it does not confirm the accuracy.

Also providing the method used to confirm the results were accurate would be great.


thanks
Click to expand...

I know you aren't asking me but listening to the bod meeting, I heard that contests were ran through both BQWin and KCBSScore for testing its accuracy.

The bod decided at another time to release the new weighting scale when score was released. This kind of muddy's the water releasing these two changes at the same time considering how big of a change KCBSScore is but "it is what it is".
 
Rich Parker said:
I know you aren't asking me but listening to the bod meeting, I heard that contests were ran through both BQWin and KCBSScore for testing its accuracy.

The bod decided at another time to release the new weighting scale when score was released. This kind of muddy's the water releasing these two changes at the same time considering how big of a change KCBSScore is but "it is what it is".
Click to expand...

With weighting changes, results won't be exact between the old software and the new software scoring the same data. They can't be exact, there's a different multiplier on Appearance and Tenderness. There was beta testing with BQwin and KCBScore with the weighting being identical and the results were identical. KCBScore works the way it is supposed to work. Can we move on now? Maybe comment cards???
 
Candy Sue said:
Can we move on now? Maybe comment cards???
Click to expand...

I'd love to see the Comment Cards back for judges to use. I think that Don Harwell had a good idea to tear off the "new" number after re-writing the team number then staple it to the scorecard. Seems pretty simple to me. Now some will say that it only works for small contests as there would be too many teams and cards at larger contests, but aren't there more REPS at larger contests? Seems pretty equivalent to me.

If I give a team a 6 or below, I would expect the team to want to know WHY. Without comment cards they will never know.
 
Candy, I think the accuracy of the scoring program is an issue of serious interest to all competitors and it seems that the discussion of any problems the program may have have hardly been beaten down in this or any other thread. We all want to have complete confidence in the program and you answering questions here goes a long way towards assuring that.

This program represents one of the biggest changes that Teams, Judges and Reps have experienced due to the wonderful sharing of information that it provides to us all. I truly hope that the information that is now being documented and distributed will lead the way for improvements wherever they can be made.
 
My scores were some of the ones in question and i feel confident that it was not an issue with the new system.

The human element has always been a source of potential errors and KCBScore now gives us more data to compare. In this case the additional data helped point out some scoring discrepancies. A valuable discussion might be how to minimize or QC the data entry points to remove as much of the human element as possible. A judges score going directly into the system might be one way to reduce errors. Obviously KCBS can't supply 50+ iPads to each competition but a bring your own device setup could have potential. Double entry of scores could also reduce error (and push back awards).

Any other ideas?
 
Vince, you obviously want to see the technical details of the new software and its testing methodology in a very granular fashion. I would not expect the KCBS BoD President to be versed in such - I suggest you direct your inquiry to the Technology Committee that has dealt with the software and its developers since inception.

I'm sure a simple phone call to the KCBS office will get you the contact information you need, and you can report back what you learn here.
 
Candy Sue said:
Big concern is the bunching of the same teams' entries to different tables. Table captains make sure they haven't seen an entry before, but right now, there's no way to keep the same team entries from hitting the same tray going to a different table. Larger the contest, the less it's likely for this to happen. It is worrisome at smaller events though.
Click to expand...

That's what table captain sheets are for. But then there are some contests that don't bother to use them. Consistency is the key. If everyone uses them, the chances are far less to seeing duplicates to a table. With 14 tables there is no excuse a team would land on the table 2X as I read in another posting
 
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