Your thoughts on paying 10 places (KCBS)?

The Cosmic Pig

The Cosmic Pig

is one Smokin' Farker
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Personally, I'd rather see just the top 3 places in each category paid (in addition to grand/reserve champs, of course) so that they could pay more substantial sums of money. At a lot of KCBS competitions a first place win won't even get your expenses paid. I don't go to those. A first place showing should at least return your expenses, plus a little more to reward a superior effort. But that's my humble opinion. Your thoughts?
 
I guess I think differently for a couple of reasons:
1) I'm not in this "sport" to make money (and I think that would be a bad idea)
2) I don't finish in the top three (yet) so I will take what $ I can get

Competing for me is all about the passion of cooking great Q. When I raced sports cars I spent $1000 per weekend for a $5 plastic trophy. If not making money were an impediment to having a great hobby, I would have very few things to do in my spare time.
 
All depends on the total payout amount, normally I like to see payouts in individual catagories go down to 10th place, that way more teams can share in the pool and off-set their expenses instead of just a couple teams taking the majority. If the top four teams cannot even breakeven I usually will avoid that comp.
 
Here is what I consider a perfect payout structure, it is from the Wildwest Shootout happening this weekend in Nevada. https://www.facebook.com/events/414358195324799/
Grand Champion: $6,500
+$250 Entry into the World Food Championships
+$250 Gas Stipend

Reserve Champion: $3,000

KCBS Categories: Chicken, Ribs, Pork & Brisket categories as follows:

1st place: $900
2nd place: $725
3rd place: $500
4th place: $300
5th place: $200
6th place: $150
7th place: $125
8th place: $100
9th place: $75
10th place: $50

High Roller’s Choice Payout: $2,500 (1st - $1,250 - 2nd - $750 - 3rd $500)

Total Cash Amount: $25,000
 
Teamfour said:
I guess I think differently for a couple of reasons:
1) I'm not in this "sport" to make money (and I think that would be a bad idea)
2) I don't finish in the top three (yet) so I will take what $ I can get

Competing for me is all about the passion of cooking great Q. When I raced sports cars I spent $1000 per weekend for a $5 plastic trophy. If not making money were an impediment to having a great hobby, I would have very few things to do in my spare time.
Click to expand...

In reality, I'd guess few folks ever actually make money at BBQ competitions. Unless, of course, they're people like Mixon, etc. I will probably never win enough to pay off my equipment/expense costs combined if I compete for the rest of my life. I'm just suggesting being able to pay your expenses for a competition and celebrate with a nice meal somewhere for a first place win. Something other than just break even - or less.
 
columbia1 said:
Here is what I consider a perfect payout structure, it is from the Wildwest Shootout happening this weekend in Nevada. https://www.facebook.com/events/414358195324799/
Grand Champion: $6,500
+$250 Entry into the World Food Championships
+$250 Gas Stipend

Reserve Champion: $3,000

KCBS Categories: Chicken, Ribs, Pork & Brisket categories as follows:

1st place: $900
2nd place: $725
3rd place: $500
4th place: $300
5th place: $200
6th place: $150
7th place: $125
8th place: $100
9th place: $75
10th place: $50

High Roller’s Choice Payout: $2,500 (1st - $1,250 - 2nd - $750 - 3rd $500)

Total Cash Amount: $25,000
Click to expand...

That Structure is based on a 25k prize pool which is very rare. 6k to 10k prize pool is a pretty good contest.
 
I think the vast majority of competitors would rather see payments to the top 10 instead of the top 3. I'd much rather walk away with $50 for 10th place than nothing at all.

Organizers just need to figure out how to make all contests pay out like Smoke on the Water events. I was listening to Whiskey Bent's show the other day, the organizer was talking about a $50k purse the first year out for Atlantic City, going up to $250k over five years.
 
wearcd said:
Personally, I'd rather see just the top 3 places in each category paid (in addition to grand/reserve champs, of course) so that they could pay more substantial sums of money. At a lot of KCBS competitions a first place win won't even get your expenses paid. I don't go to those. A first place showing should at least return your expenses, plus a little more to reward a superior effort. But that's my humble opinion. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I have a couple of thoughts on this...

1. KCBS requires competitions to pay the top 5 in each category, so in a KCBS competition paying the top 3 in each category wouldn't be allowed.

2. I don't think expecting to break even or be ahead just by winning a category is realistic. I think winning a category should cover your expenses for that category and put a good dent in your overall expenses, but that's about it.

I agree that getting a small check is better than another ribbon, but that should be done by increasing the prize pool, not by taking it away from the overall prizes or reducing the higher places. I also realize that this is not always possible.
 
wearcd said:
Personally, I'd rather see just the top 3 places in each category paid (in addition to grand/reserve champs, of course) so that they could pay more substantial sums of money. At a lot of KCBS competitions a first place win won't even get your expenses paid. I don't go to those. A first place showing should at least return your expenses, plus a little more to reward a superior effort. But that's my humble opinion. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

A lot of those $50 10th place payouts keeps teams coming back to compete if it was their only call. I'm not sure what payouts you are seeing for first place category, but normally around here they seem to be at minimum $500. $500 would pay back a very large portion/most of my expenses for the comp.
 
Ron_L said:
I have a couple of thoughts on this...

1. KCBS requires competitions to pay the top 5 in each category, so in a KCBS competition paying the top 3 in each category wouldn't be allowed.

2. I don't think expecting to break even or be ahead just by winning a category is realistic. I think winning a category should cover your expenses for that category and put a good dent in your overall expenses, but that's about it.

I agree that getting a small check is better than another ribbon, but that should be done by increasing the prize pool, not by taking it away from the overall prizes or reducing the higher places. I also realize that this is not always possible.
Click to expand...


Winning a category is all some of us will ever do given the field of competitiors at a good number of competitions. And to me, that's a MAJOR accomplishment...not a "just!" :heh: But the current prize structure - in most cases - basically allows the top two competitors to make money, hopefully, or at least break even. The rest are guaranteed to lose money unless first place pays more than $500 - $600 dollars. Wouldn't it make competitions more attractive to more folks if first place paid $750 or so, and there's a chance they could actually bring home a couple-hundred dollars? That way, at least six teams could cover expenses and perhaps win a little extra. I'd much rather have a chance at that than a check for $50. Once again, just my opinion!
 
Me, personally I am in it for the bling a ribbon, cheezy printed certificate, plastic bowling trophie etc. if I was lucky enough to ever hear my name I want something to look at down the road. I am just gonna spend that small check on beer anyway.
 
fnbish said:
A lot of those $50 10th place payouts keeps teams coming back to compete if it was their only call. I'm not sure what payouts you are seeing for first place category, but normally around here they seem to be at minimum $500. $500 would pay back a very large portion/most of my expenses for the comp.
Click to expand...

I was looking at doing a competition in Marietta, GA where first place pays $400. Actually, two others I looked at possibly doing paid the same amount. It would cost me at least $550 to do it - all things total - in addition to a 3.5 hour drive each way. If I could cover my my costs, bring home a first place trophy and $100 bucks, I would be an extremely happy camper. But win the trophy and still lose $150 bucks...not so much.
 
I don't know about other areas of the country, but for us, there are a handful of "big name" teams that are consistently in the top 3 or so at local events. These teams go on to win the big national comps as well. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of teams are doing less than 10 competitions a year. It's already tough enough for these smaller, part-time teams to recoup any of their costs. If you make it that much harder for them to have the chance to get anything back at all, I'm pretty sure team counts at contests will start to fall and eventually there will be fewer contests to hit for a payout.
 
I think that you should just treat the overall and categories the same and split any payout into 5 pots and hen pay through 10th place.

If there are 35 teams I think paying 10 places in everything is a good start.
 
tker32 said:
I don't know about other areas of the country, but for us, there are a handful of "big name" teams that are consistently in the top 3 or so at local events. These teams go on to win the big national comps as well. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of teams are doing less than 10 competitions a year. It's already tough enough for these smaller, part-time teams to recoup any of their costs. If you make it that much harder for them to have the chance to get anything back at all, I'm pretty sure team counts at contests will start to fall and eventually there will be fewer contests to hit for a payout.
Click to expand...

Very valid points. I guess it depends on each individual's perspective, though. If I've "invested" $550 to do a comp and I get back $50 for a walk, I don't feel I've gotten back enough to matter. And if the competition pays less than $600 for first place, I personally will reduce the team count by not showing up! :heh:
 
I'm far more interested in the % of entry fees returned as prizes, especially events with "major sponsors". I see a lot of events lately that only return 25-35% of the entry fees yet they advertize major corporate sponsors plus they charge a hefty admission to the public.
 
Non KCBS but structure is very similar in the PNWBA, first contest this year we had 4th, 4th and a 5th and walked out with zero dollars and zero cents, not doing that contest next year.
 
I like comps that call top 10 in every category. Money should prob go to top 5 in each category + GC and RGC. But for bigger comps w/ bigger prize pools 15K+ should prob throw bones to 6-10 also
 
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