Hot/Fast vs Low/Slow Brisket on PELLET

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keodark

Knows what a fatty is.
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Hi all,
I've been slowing ramping up my cooks on my new MAK 2-star and loving the cooker so far. My ultimate goal, though, is to get good texas-style brisket. I'm trying to read/watch everything I can on the subject before diving in, and I'm left with two big questions:

1) What's the benefit of Low/Slow if Hot/Fast can achieve the same (texture & flavor) results? I'm willing to wait and spend the fuel, but I haven't seen anything conclusive on whether Low & Slow can produce a better end result.

2) If cooking on a pellet grill (like my MAK), is Hot and Fast really an option? Isn't a few hours at a high temp followed by a wrap going to severely limit the amount of smoke? Can a tube smoker actually make up the difference?

Thanks!
 
keodark said:
Hi all,
I've been slowing ramping up my cooks on my new MAK 2-star and loving the cooker so far. My ultimate goal, though, is to get good texas-style brisket. I'm trying to read/watch everything I can on the subject before diving in, and I'm left with two big questions:

1) What's the benefit of Low/Slow if Hot/Fast can achieve the same (texture & flavor) results? I'm willing to wait and spend the fuel, but I haven't seen anything conclusive on whether Low & Slow can produce a better end result.

2) If cooking on a pellet grill (like my MAK), is Hot and Fast really an option? Isn't a few hours at a high temp followed by a wrap going to severely limit the amount of smoke? Can a tube smoker actually make up the difference?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I am not an expert on Texas Style brisket, but I think you will have a hard time getting the bark that most people associate with "Texas Style" doing a traditional hot and fast (with wrap) method.
 
Low n Slow (180*-200*) for 2 hours then Hot n Fast (300-325*), Nekid...........
 
keodark said:
Hi all,
I've been slowing ramping up my cooks on my new MAK 2-star and loving the cooker so far. My ultimate goal, though, is to get good texas-style brisket. I'm trying to read/watch everything I can on the subject before diving in, and I'm left with two big questions:

1) What's the benefit of Low/Slow if Hot/Fast can achieve the same (texture & flavor) results? I'm willing to wait and spend the fuel, but I haven't seen anything conclusive on whether Low & Slow can produce a better end result.
Click to expand...

IMHO ( and the O of many on here) there is no benefit to LnS. Some of the most highly regarded BBQ joints in Texas cook at 275° and higher.

2) If cooking on a pellet grill (like my MAK), is Hot and Fast really an option? Isn't a few hours at a high temp followed by a wrap going to severely limit the amount of smoke? Can a tube smoker actually make up the difference?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Sure it's an option. I would suggest not to use the smoke tube unless you like the flavor of creosote. A couple of hours at the lowest (or smoke setting, i'm not familiar with the MAK's controls) temp will do the trick.

pharp said:
I am not an expert on Texas Style brisket, but I think you will have a hard time getting the bark that most people associate with "Texas Style" doing a traditional hot and fast (with wrap) method.
Click to expand...

Not true in my experience.

SmittyJonz said:
Low n Slow (180*-200*) for 2 hours then Hot n Fast (300-325*), Nekid...........
Click to expand...

Exactly. Trust the Smitty. He knows his stuff! :)
 
When I cooked on a WSM and Hunsaker Drum I preferred HnF (300-325) because I didn't have to cook overnight and achieved great results.

Now that I'm cooking them on a PG (MAK), it's smoke for a couple hours, 225 for 6hrs then 245 until IT hits 165-170 then wrap, if I'm in a hurry I'll ramp up the temp to 300 if not let it ride at 250-275 until prob tender. The reason for the LnS is smoke profile, if you start cooking at 300 that brisket is going to taste like it was cooked in an oven with no smoke profile.

I kind of miss cooking Brisket and Butts HnF not because of the results more so I enjoyed the process, kicking around getting a 30gal Gateway Drum for HnF cooks.
 
sleebus.jones said:
IMHO ( and the O of many on here) there is no benefit to LnS. Some of the most highly regarded BBQ joints in Texas cook at 275° and higher.



Sure it's an option. I would suggest not to use the smoke tube unless you like the flavor of creosote. A couple of hours at the lowest (or smoke setting, i'm not familiar with the MAK's controls) temp will do the trick.



Not true in my experience.



Exactly. Trust the Smitty. He knows his stuff! :)
Click to expand...

I cook everything hot and fast, but have yet to replicate that thick black bark that I think most people associate with "texas brisket." I actually am not concerned with the bark, but the few times I have tried to replicate it have been unsuccessful. I would love some tips/advice on getting it while cooking hot and fast!
 
pharp said:
I cook everything hot and fast, but have yet to replicate that thick black bark that I think most people associate with "texas brisket." I actually am not concerned with the bark, but the few times I have tried to replicate it have been unsuccessful. I would love some tips/advice on getting it while cooking hot and fast!
Click to expand...

Not sure why you're having trouble but it may be related to the rub you're using and the application of it. Sugar is one of the main things that will form the bark. I also use Worcestershire to stick it down.

If you use a sugarless rub, expect results like this:

This is a Pork Spinalis roast (first time my wife smoked anything on the PG1000, I think she did a great job!)
9jEIPR1l.jpg


0NaUBAFl.jpg


This was cooked straight through, 275° on a PG1000. No wrap, just cooked nekkid. Used Meathead's big bad beef rub, which was applied after shaking Worcestershire over the meat. It has some sugar in it, not as much as the pork rub, but enough to make things happen.

duD7HRnl.jpg


0N9OP5Yl.jpg


Chuck roast

iwL0jNXl.jpg


Pork Shoulder

epOoE3Al.jpg


Now that's not to say that you can't get a bark without it, but it may take longer than you think. A super clean fire will also lead to a lighter looking end product. Just gotta keep experimentin'!
 
I like 275 deg for brisket. Wrap when the bark is set and take to 205 deg in the thick part of the flat. I then set the controller to smoke and hold for 1-2 hours followed by a 30 min rest unwrapped on the counter.

For more smoke use a tub or leave on smoke for first hour
 
sleebus.jones said:
Not sure why you're having trouble but it may be related to the rub you're using and the application of it. Sugar is one of the main things that will form the bark. I also use Worcestershire to stick it down.

If you use a sugarless rub, expect results like this:

This is a Pork Spinalis roast (first time my wife smoked anything on the PG1000, I think she did a great job!)
9jEIPR1l.jpg


0NaUBAFl.jpg


This was cooked straight through, 275° on a PG1000. No wrap, just cooked nekkid. Used Meathead's big bad beef rub, which was applied after shaking Worcestershire over the meat. It has some sugar in it, not as much as the pork rub, but enough to make things happen.

duD7HRnl.jpg


0N9OP5Yl.jpg


Chuck roast

iwL0jNXl.jpg


Pork Shoulder

epOoE3Al.jpg


Now that's not to say that you can't get a bark without it, but it may take longer than you think. A super clean fire will also lead to a lighter looking end product. Just gotta keep experimentin'!
Click to expand...


Very nice. I will add some sugar next time I decide to play with it. I would anticipate at 275 unwrapped the whole time it will still take quite a while.
 
For what it’s worth, I do most all of my low n slows at 210° with the meat placed on the upper grate which hovers around 225-230°. I don’t care if the cook takes 15+ hours because the results are always really good. In my opinion, pellet poopers turn out better results if you don’t try to rush it and just let it do what it does best... cook low n slow. It’s not like you have to be involved in the cooking process... lol. For things like butts and briskets, I always start the cook around 9-10pm the night before. The meat is typically done and resting between 11am-1pm the following day. I love this method and the long rest that it provides the meat prior to dinner time. Here’s a small butt I stuck on the MAK this past Saturday at 8pm... and here it is at the 6am checkin the following morning. It came off at 10:30am just in time for a 2:30 hour rest before our 1pm lunch. Super easy and stress free cooking :)
c110ad2a5be0e3f2e6afe0b86827e305.jpg
 
rwalters said:
For what it’s worth, I do most all of my low n slows at 210° with the meat placed on the upper grate which hovers around 225-230°. I don’t care if the cook takes 15+ hours because the results are always really good. In my opinion, pellet poopers turn out better results if you don’t try to rush it and just let it do what it does best... cook low n slow. It’s not like you have to be involved in the cooking process... lol. For things like butts and briskets, I always start the cook around 9-10pm the night before. The meat is typically done and resting between 11am-1pm the following day. I love this method and the long rest that it provides the meat prior to dinner time. Here’s a small butt I stuck on the MAK this past Saturday at 8pm... and here it is at the 6am checkin the following morning. It came off at 10:30am just in time for a 2:30 hour rest before our 1pm lunch. Super easy and stress free cooking :)
Click to expand...

I'm the same way with my pellet. Keep it as easy as possible. The one I did last weekend went on at midnight at 225. Went to bed, woke up at 5:30, and went from there. It was done at noon and in the cooler until 5. Came out great as usual.
 
All pellet cookers are not the same, so there is no one size fits all method. Airflow and humidity has a lot to with bark. Play around with your cooker and find what works best for you on your smoker. I can get Brisket as dark as coal on my FEC-100 with just salt and pepper, but for me that means going low and slow the whole way with the first four hours at 180 before going up to 225 until it’s done, almost always on an overnight cook.

https://flic.kr/p/25EJXWb
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I think this calls for an experiment, since opinions seem to vary, and I need the practice anyway.

I propose the following pseudoscientific experiment, which has likely been done and documented before, but maybe not on a MAK...

I choose two packer briskets of same grade and as close as possible in weight.
Backyard trim, liberal rub with kosher salt and coarse black pepper, 50-50.
Allow to dry-brine for 4-6 hours or overnight (same for both briskets).
Cook brisket on upper grate of MAK, with a water pan.

Method 1: Low & Slow:
Start at "Smoke" setting (~180) for 2 hours
Increase temperature to 225 until bark is set (during or immediately after the stall)
Wrap in butcher paper and increase temp to 275 until "butter" texture, somewhere between 203 and 210 degrees.
Pull and hold/rest for 1 hour in a towel-lined cooler.
Unwrap and allow to cool to 140 or so, slice to serve.


Method 2: Hot n Fast
Start at "Smoke" setting (~180) for 2 hours
Increase temperature to 300 and cook until "butter" texture, without wrapping.
Pull, wrap in butcher paper, hold/rest for 1 hour in a towel-lined cooler
Unwrap and allow to cool to 140 or so, slice to serve.

Any suggestions for changes to the above before I go spend $100+ on brisket? :)
 
keodark said:
Thanks for the input everyone. I think this calls for an experiment, since opinions seem to vary, and I need the practice anyway.



I propose the following pseudoscientific experiment, which has likely been done and documented before, but maybe not on a MAK...



I choose two packer briskets of same grade and as close as possible in weight.

Backyard trim, liberal rub with kosher salt and coarse black pepper, 50-50.

Allow to dry-brine for 4-6 hours or overnight (same for both briskets).

Cook brisket on upper grate of MAK, with a water pan.



Method 1: Low & Slow:

Start at "Smoke" setting (~180) for 2 hours

Increase temperature to 225 until bark is set (during or immediately after the stall)

Wrap in butcher paper and increase temp to 275 until "butter" texture, somewhere between 203 and 210 degrees.

Pull and hold/rest for 1 hour in a towel-lined cooler.

Unwrap and allow to cool to 140 or so, slice to serve.





Method 2: Hot n Fast

Start at "Smoke" setting (~180) for 2 hours

Increase temperature to 300 and cook until "butter" texture, without wrapping.

Pull, wrap in butcher paper, hold/rest for 1 hour in a towel-lined cooler

Unwrap and allow to cool to 140 or so, slice to serve.



Any suggestions for changes to the above before I go spend $100+ on brisket? :)
Click to expand...



Looking forward to this!!!! I think you should wrap both in paper once the bark has been developed instead of just the low n slow. That’s my vote :)
 
rwalters said:
Looking forward to this!!!! I think you should wrap both in paper once the bark has been developed instead of just the low n slow. That’s my vote :)
Click to expand...

Good point. I'll change it to "Wrap in paper IF/WHEN a bark develops." :)
 
keodark said:
Good point. I'll change it to "Wrap in paper IF/WHEN a bark develops." :)
Click to expand...
Last Brisket I did was 2.5hrs smoke, 225 6hrs, 245 till probe tender and did not wrap which I usually do with BP and was not happy, so good call on wrapping imo.
 
Nothing beats "TRUE" low and slow. Gradually bring that brisket to 185F and hold it there till it probes tender ( could be anywhere from 12-20 hours depending on how big the brisket is. Generally, if the brisket stays at 185 for 12 hours (wrapped) its going to be probe tender.
 
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