NOT ENOUGH HEAT - HEEELLLLLPPP!

First off, glad to hear you may get a job again. No fun being out of work.

Now to the smoker problem. What model did you get? If it's a Smoke King Deluxe (mirror image of Bandera) did you do the firegrate & baffle mods? Airflow and smoke flow control your chamber temps. Make sure you've got plenty of airflow (and ash room) underneath the firegrate. 2-3 inches makes a big difference.

I'll wait to see your answer before going on...

Ok, I'm not familiar with this model but I'm thinking it's a horizontal? Since the meat at the firebox/smoke chamber hole got done I'm thinking you may need a baffle or some sort of tuning plate to more evenly disperse the heat throughout the chamber. In our files section there's a folder named Mods. Check there about horizontals. I know some need to have the chimney lowered more into the chamber which will help keep smoke in and not just exit straight out. Tuning plates, etc are all covered there. I'm sure someone with a horizontal will chime in soon, if they haven't already by the time I submit this.

Sorry I couldn't help more.

Your chimney should be wide open.

Take the sand out from under the firegrate or raise the grate up with something - rock, 1/2 bricks, etc. Open your vents - full open to start and then down to 1/2 or smaller as the chamber comes up to temp. Don't close the chimney damper except as a last resort to snuff a fire down.

" Edited since I seem to be the only person that has zero success with the Minion method in a sheet metal horizontal." Do it their way and then make a simple bakset and see if my way just might work.

Extend the chimney down to the cooking grate with a split juice can or a piece of aluminum flashing formed into a roll.

If your wood is nice and dry you can use it to supplement the charcoal or burn all wood - however, an all wood brn takes a lot of attention.

Basically it sound like you're not getting air flow and may just have too small of a fire.[/b]

Take a look at our Files section, Mods, Horizontal Smoker Mods, etc. etc.

Lots of good info that came from some other sources - lots of us have or have had horizontal (New Braunfels, OK Joes, etc.) cookers and so we have these pages -- lots of help and hints on baffles, etc.

I've got a NB horizontal in my menagerie and it cooks fine - I've just gotten to where I use my WSM a lot more. I made a simple expanded steel charcoal basket (quick and dirty with no welds or wire - just cut and bend) and a 20-something gauge baffle that sticks about 10" into the horizontal chamber.

Good luck - with this and the job!

In addition to the aformentioned suggestions, much heat is lost through the top of the firebox. There's an easy fix that will also extend the life of the unit greatly. Get a piece of (preferrably stainless and definately not aluminum or galvanized) steel sheet that measures the same as the footprint of the firebox but a few inches wider. Bend this piece into an arc and insert it inside the firebox lid. Thats it!

The smoken pit is a silver smoker in disguise. Extend the chimney down to grate level with a soup can. Cut ends out and cut lengthwise insert into the chimeny and let it spring open.. bringh it down to the grate. If you want to go further, you can cut a hole out in the grate that will allow the extension slighlty beyond that.

There are pictures of my baffle in the gallery and aslo in the mods section. The baffle also is extended into a tuning plate(sort of). Airflow in the firebox on that model is ample if u have the grates turned in the right direction, but they fit both ways, so make sure your at the higher setting.

Also, some models have the chimney coming out of the endcap, not the top of the cooking chamber. The soupcan wont work on those, ya may have to improvise.

Unless you're using some kind of charcoal basket the Minion method won't do you any good -

Click to expand...

I beg to differ.
http://www.yellowjacketsystems.com/que/minion/

I use "the method" in my cimarron all the time and have never had a basket. I usually get 3 or so hours per fuel load. Now that I've sealed up the FB door I can load up and get 6-8 but it requires closer monitoring than with smaller loads.

i've seen the minion method work in just about anything with and without baskets. The pics showed above didnt need a basket cause the whole firebox was full wall to wall acting as its own basket. However!, take head, that technique most likly worked just fine becaseu he used lump charcoal. If it was briquettes or kingsford, i thing the dogs would have had the meal due to the bitter taste. So lets get into a technical discussion of the minion method.

IMHO.....

The addition of unlit coals ontop of a lit fire is bad, the coals light slowly and yuks up your food. Right?? right.

In the minion method, ya dump lit coals on TOP of unlit coals. This causes a vertical/downward burn. As the lower coals light, the fumes burn up thru the lit coals and any unbunt stuff in the fumes has a second chance to burn away. Kind of like the catalytic converter in your car oxidizing and burning the unburned emmissions before going out the exhaust. This is how we get away with breaking the rule of not adding unlit charcoal briquettes to a lit fire. Of course, lump is the exception.

These pics KC posted from Jim Ball are using lump charcoal, which is ok to put on top of a fire because all the impurities are already burned out of them. The technique Jim Ball used was to light a can in the center of the lump and have it burn outward... a horizontal Minion method, instead of vertical. OK here, because its lump. But if this was kingsford or other briquettes, I think the lighting of the coals horizontally would cause the impurities to impart a nasty taste on the food. They would rise directly out of the pile, without that second chance of burning off their impurities.

Now.. a caveat. The "S" burn in the Klose firebasket. Horizontal burn - Any takers.??

i've seen the minion method work in just about anything with and without baskets. The pics showed above didnt need a basket cause the whole firebox was full wall to wall acting as its own basket. However!, take head, that technique most likly worked just fine becaseu he used lump charcoal. If it was briquettes or kingsford, i thing the dogs would have had the meal due to the bitter taste. So lets get into a technical discussion of the minion method.

IMHO.....

The addition of unlit coals ontop of a lit fire is bad, the coals light slowly and yuks up your food. Right?? right.

In the minion method, ya dump lit coals on TOP of unlit coals. This causes a vertical/downward burn. As the lower coals light, the fumes burn up thru the lit coals and any unbunt stuff in the fumes has a second chance to burn away. Kind of like the catalytic converter in your car oxidizing and burning the unburned emmissions before going out the exhaust. This is how we get away breaking the rule of not adding unlit charcoal briquettes to a lit fire. Of course, lump is the exception.

These pics KC posted from Jim Ball are using lump charcoal, which is ok to put on top of a fire because all the impurities are already burned out of them. The technique Jim Ball used was to light a can in the center of the lump and have it burn outward... a horizontal Minion method, instead of vertical. OK here, because its lump. But if this was kingsford or other briquettes, I think the lighting of the coals horizontally would cause the impurities to impart a nasty taste on the food. They would rise directly out of the pile, without that second chance and burning off their impurities

Click to expand...

Phil, your theory is dead on. In practice I get the same "catalytic converter" effect burning horizontally by starting the fire at the smokebox end of my firebox and having the fumes pass thru the hottest part of the fire before entering the smokebox.
I always use kingsford and chunked up splits and never have had a bad smoke problem in the Cimarron. Following my system, Cue'lio gets similar results. 3 hrs unattended with a chimney of unlit with some chunks ignited by a half chimney or so at the smokebox end, at the end of 3 hrs I push the remaining coal back to the smokebox end, add another load of fresh fuel and start the process again.

kcquer said:

Unless you're using some kind of charcoal basket the Minion method won't do you any good -

Click to expand...

I beg to differ.
http://www.yellowjacketsystems.com/que/minion/

I use "the method" in my cimarron all the time and have never had a basket. I usually get 3 or so hours per fuel load. Now that I've sealed up the FB door I can load up and get 6-8 but it requires closer monitoring than with smaller loads.

Click to expand...

No need to "beg to differ with me" I know what works on my cooker - I can't speak about yours since 1. it's built heavier, 2. you've modified the door which improves the fire control, 3. you've got a much bigger firebox than what I use.

So, whatever pops your cork. I was just letting the bro know what works in a CHEAP sheet metal cooker.

Your mileage will vary!

Um..... first question that comes to mind..... what are you using to tell the temp of the smoke chamber? If it is the door mount that comes with the unit, then that may be the problem and you may not have a temp problem. Get a few cheap standup oven therms., and place them inside, and fire the beast up. you may be up to temp.

jt said:

In our files section there's a folder named Mods. Check there about horizontals. I know some need to have the chimney lowered more into the chamber which will help keep smoke in and not just exit straight out. Tuning plates, etc are all covered there. I'm sure someone with a horizontal will chime in soon, if they haven't already by the time I submit this.

Click to expand...

Is this still around, I can't find it. I have the same problem too low heat.

I just bought one last week and I have exactly the same problem.

I got some GE silicon seal and went around the firebox and sealed all the joints. Lots of leakage available into the firebox from the seams.

Replaced the flimsy door on the firebox with 3/32 steel - and then used silicon seal and wax paper and made a "gasket" for the door. If you can't replace the door, you can still use the silicon seal/wax paper system to make a good enough gasket to seal the existing door.

Also used silicon seal and wax paper to make a "gasket" for the door that lifts up on the firebox.

NOW - still am having same problem - so tonight am going to go around the cooking chamber with 1"x1"x1/8 angle iron and start sealing up the horizontal joint on the cooking chamber.

I put some oak pellets in it the other night and watched where the smoke came out to identify all the places that the firebox/smoking chamber leaks.

I am hopeful that once I get this thing sealed up that it can be made to get up to temp and hold it.

My thought it that there is just too much heat escaping from all these leaks and that it's not staying in the cooking chamber long enough to build temps to a cooking level. I also fooled around with the chimney - full open, full closed - didn't seem to make much difference.

Even using the BBQ Guru - I couldn't get it up to temps.

If you are relying on just the suction from the stack, then sealing that cooking chamber is going to be critical in order to make the air come thru the firebox first. Also, try taking some heavy duty aluminum foil and make a stack extension - just for a test. The higher the stack, the better it will pull.

I also am going to put some sand or bricks in the bottom of the cooking chamber to add to the mass of the cooker - and hopefully retain some of the heat.

Can't wait to get off work and into the shop and start welding on this sucker. I think it'll be a good cooker once we get the airflow problems worked out.

I also added a shield inside the smoking chamber to get the heat from the firebox moved more toward the middle of the cooking chamber, - that did even out the temps some.

Send me an email at r_wren@wfec.com and let's compare notes.

Hope that job comes thru - keep up the faith man.

Rodney Wren

Most of my temperature problems stem from the ash buildup when using briquets on a long slow cook. It will start out great hold temperature for a while then slowly creap down. I have the stack extended. Don't have the baffle, but did turn the larger grate in the chamber upside dow to act as a baffle once but couldn't get up to temp. My main problem should be solved by raising the charcoal/fire up off the bottom to allow the ash to fall down and not choke out the fire.

try a basket that holds the fire up off the bottom more than it already is. Your problem seems to be air flow control.

Also, when I started out I didn't have the side fire box and made the fire on one side of the grill, opposite from the stack. worked really well, might be something to try in the meantime.

91vw03 is right - lots of ash buildup in the bottom of the cooking chamber.

Also found out this weekend that Sam's self starting charcoal is the wrong stuff to use. Actually got some serious puffs when I added some more charcoal to the firebox. Boy was that exciting.

OK - sealed off the cooking chamber on all sides with angle iron attached to the bottom of the cooking chamber. Stopped maybe 90% of the leakage between the lid and the lower chamber of the smoking side. Man, this thing leaked more than the Titanic.

Went back to the store and got some regular - non-lighting kingsford - added that to the firebox and the temps came right up and held just fine.

So, sealing the firebox, and cooking chamber and using better charcoal is getting me closer to actual cooking. I also think I'm going to get a welding blanket and throw it over the firebox -

I've got the temp diff from one end of the cooking chamber to the other down to about 20 degrees - I'm pretty happy with that -

I'm going to build an expanded metal charcoal box like 91vw0 suggested and try that.

I may move the chimney down to the firegrate level, but since I'm using the BBQ Guru, I haven't decided if that would help any.

Hope one day this week I can get some ribs and actually start cooking for the first time.

Regards
Rodney Wren

I have tried finding the Mods section that keeps getting mentioned, but haven't been able to find it. I want to compare things that I have already done with my SNPP with those that more knowledgeable haave tried. Any help finding the Mods would be appreciated. :becky:

Having gone through the complete mods on my "cheap" Chargriller w/sidebox, these less expensive cans are obviously lighter guage steel. I've found later in the Fall, that wrapping the top half of the can with foil face duct insulation helps hold in the heat also. Putting an expanded metal basket in the sidebox, and making all the changes/baffle/tuning plates made all the difference in the world, and yes, get that sand out to get air up under your fuel (plus will provide more room for ash). Follow those directions and the cheap box will do a bang up job for you.