Uncooked, Raw Meat?

Burnt at Both Endz said:
Can you tell us what this judges average was for the day?
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Average score for that judge was 28.9019....not even the lowest at the table. One judge had an average of 26.2767...too get that kind of average, you are below the 777 range.

To hear so many people talk about Sams judging, I guess we just got to experience what many others have gone through. Lesson learned.
 
Sam's contest seams to be the new ground for new judges to get there feet wet. The reason, because of the way to get there judges............first come. Not all bad, but the new judges have a chance to jump into a contest. Alot of contest have the same judges each year,so a problem happens with Sam's. Too many newbies!
Not always the case but, first hand knowledge. This is just my idea why you see some crazyness. To not even taste the meat............no idea other then inxperince.

Don't beat yourself up on this, just move on to the next contest. That judge got tossed anyway,

Ron Yater
 
rib runners said:
Sam's contest seams to be the new ground for new judges to get there feet wet. The reason, because of the way to get there judges............first come. Not all bad, but the new judges have a chance to jump into a contest. Alot of contest have the same judges each year,so a problem happens with Sam's. Too many newbies!
Not always the case but, first hand knowledge. This is just my idea why you see some crazyness. To not even taste the meat............no idea other then inxperince.

Don't beat yourself up on this, just move on to the next contest. That judge got tossed anyway,

Ron Yater
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I've said this for a while, "the only way to run a small contest like this is to go to 28 teams with 4 tables, everyone then must hit each table".
 
Being a comp. cook in chili, amateur bbq cook, certified judge in both; I know there some bad judges out there. It really sucks when you land at there tables.
Some people are just dumb, and don't know what they are talking about, can't tell one flavor from another. As a fairly newer judge in both, it seems to me that in both (especially) ICS chili and KCBS bbq there are unsaid flavor profiles people follow; if your a cook and you don't follow them you will probably not win.
 
I have to say the ribs, based on the picture, look cooked.

I think you got screwed....it does happen. Sorry dude.
 
Can someone explain how you can have that much pull back on a rib and not have it be at least 145 degrees. That is a shame that the rep. didn't handle that differently. it may have not been cooked perfectly, but there is no way it did not reach 145.

Eggspert
 
Funtimebbq said:
Based on what I have read, the Rep. told the team that the judge did not taste the rib. Based on the box shown, it would be hard for me to say a rib was raw without at least trying to bite into it. However, I have copied the Rep Advisory regarding uncooked meat and it looks like a judge doesn't have to taste something to declare it undercooked or raw.

2.04
Under Cooked Meat
Question: Uncooked meat doesn’t seem to violate any rules. How do you score
an entry if a judge refuses to eat their sample because it is undercooked?
Opinion:
Under cooked meat poses a health problem and shouldn’t be eaten. A score of two (2) through nine (9) should be given for taste and tenderness by the judge(s) who refuse to eat the entry. This is not a disqualification and therefore should not be given a one (1). Assuming the entry has already been scored for appearance, do not go back and change the score given for appearance.
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I posted this above a couple of days ago and have been thinking about it since. I am going to guess, there are a few KCBS BoD's who look at this forum. So, I'm going to say to them, please take a look at this Rep Advisory and take away the Rep's discretion in how to score a sample when a judge refuses to taste it. My advice is to change the language so the Rep must take the average score for taste and tenderness at that table, for that type of meat and award those averages to the sample in question. This takes away a Rep's ability to award a score of 2 (as in this case) just because they can. Remember, it wasn't the judge who scored a 2, it was the Rep. Thank you for looking and I hope, for team's sake, you consider a change.
 
Funtimebbq said:
So, I'm going to say to them, please take a look at this Rep Advisory and take away the Rep's discretion in how to score a sample when a judge refuses to taste it. My advice is to change the language so the Rep must take the average score for taste and tenderness at that table, for that type of meat and award those averages to the sample in question. This takes away a Rep's ability to award a score of 2 (as in this case) just because they can. Remember, it wasn't the judge who scored a 2, it was the Rep. Thank you for looking and I hope, for team's sake, you consider a change.
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Either that, or handle the situation in the same manner as when hair/brush bristles are observed on the food. If the judge refuses to sample the entry, then allow the TC or another judge to sample and score
 
Funtimebbq said:
I posted this above a couple of days ago and have been thinking about it since. I am going to guess, there are a few KCBS BoD's who look at this forum. So, I'm going to say to them, please take a look at this Rep Advisory and take away the Rep's discretion in how to score a sample when a judge refuses to taste it. My advice is to change the language so the Rep must take the average score for taste and tenderness at that table, for that type of meat and award those averages to the sample in question. This takes away a Rep's ability to award a score of 2 (as in this case) just because they can. Remember, it wasn't the judge who scored a 2, it was the Rep. Thank you for looking and I hope, for team's sake, you consider a change.
Click to expand...

I do not believe the rep gives the score. The rep instructs the judge to use the scores 2-9 to score it as they, the judge determines it deserves. Keith
 
Thanks for that. Gives the BoDs something else to think about if they want to look at change the advisory.
 
The more I think about this the more disheartened I become! Why in the world would KCBS give the judges the right to NOT judge a piece of meat because they "think" it is raw?!? The OP stated that the rep said "The judge refused to try it because they thought it was raw". With the amount of money, time, effort, travel, passion, heart and soul that we cooks put into this hobby/sport - this should be troubling to everyone. The fact that one judge can base thier scores on your product on how they "think" it is cooked! Are you serious?!? Without even tasting it?!?

I know that that the score from that so called "judge" was dropped - that is not the point. I think KCBS needs to look into this deeper. There is way too much on the line for us cooks to let this happen. I know there are BOD members on this forum - If you are reading this thread please discuss this at the next meeting. Many posters on this thread have excellent ideas on how to combat this - Let the TC sample, another judge, average score, etc...

BTW - I am not a judge basher - Whenever I see the judges walking around I thank them for coming out and volunteering their time to come judge our product. I am great friends with several judges and many of them come by my camp after judging to chat. There are many amazing judges that take this serious and are a huge asset to this sport. To those judges I say Thank You for all that you do! To this particular "judge" I say please stay at home and cook your own ribs!
 
Smitty250 said:
The more I think about this the more disheartened I become! Why in the world would KCBS give the judges the right to NOT judge a piece of meat because they "think" it is raw?!? The OP stated that the rep said "The judge refused to try it because they thought it was raw". With the amount of money, time, effort, travel, passion, heart and soul that we cooks put into this hobby/sport - this should be troubling to everyone. The fact that one judge can base thier scores on your product on how they "think" it is cooked! Are you serious?!? Without even tasting it?!?

I know that that the score from that so called "judge" was dropped - that is not the point. I think KCBS needs to look into this deeper. There is way too much on the line for us cooks to let this happen. I know there are BOD members on this forum - If you are reading this thread please discuss this at the next meeting. Many posters on this thread have excellent ideas on how to combat this - Let the TC sample, another judge, average score, etc...

BTW - I am not a judge basher - Whenever I see the judges walking around I thank them for coming out and volunteering their time to come judge our product. I am great friends with several judges and many of them come by my camp after judging to chat. There are many amazing judges that take this serious and are a huge asset to this sport. To those judges I say Thank You for all that you do! To this particular "judge" I say please stay at home and cook your own ribs!
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Nail on the head post!..it goes back to zero credibility..an ass like this can actually judge again!!!.
 
Earlier this evening i got off the telephone with Troy Black from the Sam's Club National BBQ Tour. We spoke for a good amount of time, and although it is highly unfortunate what occurred in Sacramento with The California Grill Billie's rib entry, everything was handled according to the KCBS rules and directives as presently in effect. The reps have TONS of experience, and ensured that everything was handled appropriately.

At no point am I saying that appropriately is synonymous with fairly. This is something that needs to be handled from the KCBS level. I have sent an email to the KCBS Judging and Rules committees, and have requested that they revisit their policies and procedures governing potentially under cooked meat.
 
DUBBAGA said:
Earlier this evening i got off the telephone with Troy Black from the Sam's Club National BBQ Tour. We spoke for a good amount of time, and although it is highly unfortunate what occurred in Sacramento with The California Grill Billie's rib entry, everything was handled according to the KCBS rules and directives as presently in effect. The reps have TONS of experience, and ensured that everything was handled appropriately.

At no point am I saying that appropriately is synonymous with fairly. This is something that needs to be handled from the KCBS level. I have sent an email to the KCBS Judging and Rules committees, and have requested that they revisit their policies and procedures governing potentially under cooked meat.
Click to expand...

So it's not the organizer that is responsible for the selection of judges? Sam's Club uses criteria for their finials don't they.

Hopefully someday, instead of making another farking rule, we will get at the heart of training judges. It's obvious that this judge needed to stay home and grill his/her hotdog on their own grill or at least needed some guidance to get started with judging.

I only hope this experience doesn't sour the first time cook team on comp cooking.
 
Burnt at Both Endz said:
So it's not the organizer that is responsible for the selection of judges? Sam's Club uses criteria for their finials don't they.

Hopefully someday, instead of making another farking rule, we will get at the heart of training judges. It's obvious that this judge needed to stay home and grill his/her hotdog on their own grill or at least needed some guidance to get started with judging.

I only hope this experience doesn't sour the first time cook team on comp cooking.
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Certainly the reps for the Sam's Club series ultimately decide which judges participate at any event. And before the event, I do not believe there had been any incidents with this rib judge to prevent them from being there.

My recommendation to the committees were to simply make a revision to the directives provided to the Reps about how to handle certain situations. They already have a section in place potentially under cooked meat, I was only suggesting that they allow for the option to have another willing certified participant sample an entry if the initial judge isn't comfortable doing so.

*** As a side point, within 2 1/2 hrs from emailing the committees, they must have contacted the rep, as I was copied on his email back to KCBS explaining the situation. I was impressed with the fast response ***

*** update: 7:55am PST and the emails are coming in from KCBS... not looking good for the home team ***
 
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At the first Sam’s event, there were lots of mistakes but everyone worked to make it right because we all wanted it to be the best. As we progressed forward through the years there were ancillary contest and demonstrations and smooth sailing. This year, the 5th year I believe, at the Fort Worth event, there were no demos, no interaction, no comradery, no side contests, and minimal interaction with teams or public; just the “we’re here and let’s just get it over with and move on syndrome.” When Troy was asked about this involvement, or lack thereof, the answer was, Sam’s was only in it for the names on the side of the truck and the bbq contest was an “also there but, necessary evil” thing.

I honestly believe that this attitude of “familiarity breeds contempt” in the organizing and judging will be the norm and not the exception for the balance of the year and the Sam’s events will just go away. It was good while it lasted but without some enthusiasm on the part of the folks in charge, it will die a slow ignoble death.

Mack
 
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